300tdi engine cutting out.

[Farmerfred]

Been some while since I've posted and have searched for a relative topic but can't find an answer. Anyway, I seem to be experiencing an odd thing in that yesterday the engine on my 1996 Dico ES just cut out and died when I went through some water on the road, this happened twice. The engine would turn over ok but would not start again until after about 5 minutes when it would start again no problem. It has never done this before no matter how much water's on the road or how you drive through it and I'm at a loss as to the reason this should happen. Any help to identify why would be much apreciated.

[Ratty43]

If it's a diesel then the only thing that can stop it would surely be the fuel solenoid, I don't know but could a break in the wire short when wet thus turning off the fuel supply?

[Farmerfred]

If it's a diesel then the only thing that can stop it would surely be the fuel solenoid, I don't know but could a break in the wire short when wet thus turning off the fuel supply?

That's what I was thinking so will have to investigate. Someone said that it could be water entering the air intake from the inner wing but I can't see the logic in that and anyway, if that was the case then the engine would still run but suck water in with more disasterous concequences. You'r suggestion sounds more plausable. Thanks, at least it's somewhere to start looking.

[Richard Mills]

Hi There,

Mine does this too, annoying isn't it. It is getting worse and the time it stays off for is getting longer. I will soom find it. But in the mean time, I have a piece of wire 18 inches long with an insulated 1'4 inch spade on one end and an insulater crock clip on the other. As it only clags out in the most awkward places, I pull the black wire off of the stop solenoid, using the new wire, I connect it directly to the battery. It gets me home every time. The solenoid takes just over an amp, so if it draws that from the wire and does not let the fuel through, it's the solenoid, but if not enough current from the wire, it drops out and the engine stops. I bought a new solenoid but am not going to fit it as it is not faulty, it's the wiring.

[Disco-Ron]

Do a search for 'alarm spider'..... late tdi's cutting out is most likely caused by the alarm cutting fuel...!!!

[Farmerfred]

Do a search for 'alarm spider'..... late tdi's cutting out is most likely caused by the alarm cutting fuel...!!!

So what is the answer to fix this fault then, presumably to renew the solenoid, trace the wiring fault or disable the alarm? I can't logically see that the alarm is affecting it because when you're driving then the alarm should be disabled anyway and would 'sound off' when the engine dies. Baffling.

[Ratty43]

If it was mine I'd solder a new wire from the main loom to the solonoid and see if that cures it, or just wrap the existing wire in good quality insulation tape, if it is a short from that wire the crack in the insulation could be too fine to see. I don't see that the solonoid itself is likely to be to blame as surely it would be more likely to permanently not work, a bit of vaseline on the connection to waterproof it wouldn't do any harm though. I agree with you on the alarm, surely it must do more than just cut the supply to the solonoid anyway and it would be fair to assume that a fault in that direction would be likely to effect it at other times, not just after passing through water.

[Farmerfred]

I made further enquiries to a freind of mine this morning that has a garage and does a lot on Land Rovers in general and we discussed the problem and subsequent remedies. The fault has been now traced to the fuel cut-off solenoid/switch on the rear of the injector pump. The electrical connection is a single black wire on an un-insulated spade neither the connection or the solenoid are covered in any way by anything to prevent water getting on it. I removed the spade (wire) and cleaned both the wire spade (female end) and the spade on the solenoid with fine emery cloth to remove any possible corrosion and dirt. Ithen, after re-connecting, started the engine and with a fine spray of water soaked the solenoid and the wire with a mist of water and nothing happened, the engine did not cut out. With the engine still running I disconnected the wire to the solenoid and, of course, the engine stopped. I then re-connected the wire and turned the key, the engine turned but would not start Just as I explained in my first post, I had to wait about 3 to 5 minutes and then the engine started no problem. Obviously, this amount of time before the engine will re-start is needed for the solenoid to re-set itself. I am hoping that the cleaning of the spade connections will cure the problem but I am still suspicious that the solenoid itself may be at fault and starting to fail so I intend to aquire and fit a new one. Thank you all for your help. They always say that 2 heads are better than 1!

[Disco-Ron]

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86

[Farmerfred]

Disco Ron. This (reading your link) seems quite complicated and although a thorough explanation of the problem it would appear that there could be several causes. to relate to some of your points covered, there is power to the cut-out solenoid with the ignition on as with the spade disconnected, it sparked when re-connected. Secondly, the red immobiliser light on the dash pod is illuminated and the fob plip works the central locking even when the engine has 'cut-out'. Thirdly, the battery is in perfect condition and I have had no problems with the starter motor. Lastly, all fuses are ok and if a fuse had gone I would think that the engine would not start anyway. All considered I am still reasonably certain that it is the solenoid that is at fault and for the little that a new one costs I will replace it with a new one and go from there.

[jbs]

Alarm Spider-My ex g/f's 300 tdi Disco used to cut out and not start again until it'd basically cooled down-nothing to do with the engine over heating but the alarm spider becoming hot(Dry solder joints on the printed circuit board inside it, as it sit's on top of the heater box in the dash below the radio and is a right pain to remove)and had cooled down and then was able to restart again, I removed this and replaced it with a bypass plug that you can actually get from land rover-I got mine from LRSeries which cost me about £7.00 + P&P, It never misses a beat now and well worth her not flapping calling the AA out as she had done in the past

HTH

John

[TheRecklessEngineer]

I agree with DiscoRon. Sounds suspiciously like the alarm spider to me.

Problems with the alarm spider can manifest themselves in different ways. One of its jobs is to provide ignition switched live to the stop solenoid. If the spider is at fault, it will make this an intermittent connection. Obviously when the connection breaks, your engine will stop. There may be some delay before it will restart (it will crank over however).

Also bear in mind that a dry solder joint may appear as a high resistance - this would result in 12v appearing at the solenoid, but the current may be limited sufficiently to stop the solenoid operating. This was how the fault manifested in mine, although it was on the starter circuit rather than the stop solenoid.

[Richard Mills]

As it is a nice sunny day, I decided to have a go at mine. It took two hours to get th spider out, fix it and replace it. I suspect all will be ok now. My spider board had many suspect joints, so I re soldered all of them. I recommend keeping the iron on the big tag for a while, just to make sure it is fully heated. See attached picture of the offending tag.

[sotal]

I made further enquiries to a freind of mine this morning that has a garage and does a lot on Land Rovers in general and we discussed the problem and subsequent remedies. The fault has been now traced to the fuel cut-off solenoid/switch on the rear of the injector pump. The electrical connection is a single black wire on an un-insulated spade neither the connection or the solenoid are covered in any way by anything to prevent water getting on it. I removed the spade (wire) and cleaned both the wire spade (female end) and the spade on the solenoid with fine emery cloth to remove any possible corrosion and dirt. Ithen, after re-connecting, started the engine and with a fine spray of water soaked the solenoid and the wire with a mist of water and nothing happened, the engine did not cut out. With the engine still running I disconnected the wire to the solenoid and, of course, the engine stopped. I then re-connected the wire and turned the key, the engine turned but would not start Just as I explained in my first post, I had to wait about 3 to 5 minutes and then the engine started no problem. Obviously, this amount of time before the engine will re-start is needed for the solenoid to re-set itself. I am hoping that the cleaning of the spade connections will cure the problem but I am still suspicious that the solenoid itself may be at fault and starting to fail so I intend to aquire and fit a new one. Thank you all for your help. They always say that 2 heads are better than 1!

If you are supplying power to the solonoid (use a direct wire) and it still isn't starting then there is a problem with the stop solonoid. You shouldn't have to wait a few minutes for it to 'reset'

You don't say if it's an Auto or a Manual Disco, so I don't know how people can say it's the spider. Late Autos from 1995 on (EDC controlled) don't have the spider unit and don't have this problem. Also if you do have EDC then you don't actually need the stop solonoid in place. The solonoid is just a little plunger on a spring, if you wind out the stop solonoid you can carefully remove the spring and plunger - this will allow you to full rule out the solonoid. Refit the stop solonoid without the sping and plunger in. If you have a manual vehicle you will need to stall the car to stop, if you have an EDC auto then it will just stop on the key, if you have a non EDC auto then you will find it difficult to stop!!

[Disco-Ron]

I never said it 'was' the spider...... i just said it'd be worth looking at as they do seem to fail...! just an option!!!

[sotal]

I never said it 'was' the spider...... i just said it'd be worth looking at as they do seem to fail...! just an option!!!

Sorry didn't mean it to sound quite like that - just trying to point out that if it was an auto it wouldn't have one, and as it's an ES most of them seemed to be autos so there's probably a good chance it's an auto, will have to wait for the OP to post!

[Farmerfred]

Thanks all for your replies, sorry for not getting back sooner, just been sorting out my S11A of 1966 vintage after the winter so I don't have to rely on that blasted Disco, only had to give it a good service anyway. Getting back to the topic, I have taken advice from one of my (better than other) local LR specialists and have aquired a new fuel pump solenoid and will fit this first, eliminate one thing at a time, and if that don't cure it it's going to the Doc for a spider bypass, takes them an hour to do. I'm sorry that I omitted in my previous posts to inform you all that the Disco is a manual and does not have EDC. (Exhaust recycling?)

[sotal]

EDC - is Electronic Diesel Control, only on autos so you won't have it, it was a system that gave more power and economy along with a host of extra electrical problems.

As you have a manual it could well be the Spider causing problems as suggested above, Keep a length of wire in the car - if you get stuck and can't start it then connect the wire from battery positive to the solonoid. That bypasses the spider.

Probably worth the £5 for a spider bypass kit - only takes approx 30 mins to fit and once fitted you can forget about that problem.

[Farmerfred]

If after fitting the new solenoid the problem still exists then my local Land Rover chap is primed to do the spider bypass, said to take about an hour to do and he says he's done hundreds of them so I'm going to let this chap do it as he knows what's involved and how to do it.