ejparrott Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I took a video of the Series 2 triying to start, maybe someone can shed some light on the matter? We have new glowplugs to fit thanks to Phil, they'll be going in saturday whatever the weather, then i'll take another video while trying it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 The dead plugs will make it very reluctant/impossible to start from cold, thats why IDI engines are fitted with plugs. Lack of smoke to begin with points to no fuel and even when its smoking it could be not fully self bled(not designed to be) so not injecting properly so still no start. Cranking for that length of time will lead to a burnt out starter as they are not rated for that much cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 There are three reasons why a diesel won't start: a) No fuel b) No air c) Low compression/No preheat. Given that at the beginning you have no smoke coming out the back - you have no fuel being injected. Check again your fuel lines and how they are connected (did you get them all correct in the engine swap?). White smoke is either air in the fuel (timing retarded) or insufficient preheat/low compression. Since you say she was a good runner, and given the amount of cranking she'd had by this point - even with duff plugs it should still start - so there must still be air bubbles going to the pump. The Lucas pump on the 19J is particularly finniky with air in the fuel. Even a few bubbles and it'll throw a wobbler. I suggest: Fit clear plastic pipe between filter and injection pump, and injection pump back to filter. You will be able to see air bubbles. Or: Disconnect the IP in/out and run into a bottle of clean diesel above engine height. My instinct would be looking for an air leak on the intake side of the lift pump. Or even the lift pump itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 Ok, 2 good things to start on. We will change the plugs on saturday afternoon, and then look for some clear hose to put in between the filter and FIP, maybe even LP and filter too. We're fairly confident the plumbing is right, we only disconnected lift pump when it was removed from the hybrid, the filter went with the engine as the hybrid was converted to the TDi filter with the TDi engine. If there is a plumbing diagram i'll happily get it checked again. Yesterday in the warmer weather she started without tooo much issue, today she failed again - yesterday was warm(er) and dryer than today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 An update, she's been left for a little over 12 hours, and I asked Tony to crack the four injector pipes off, and then crank her over and see whether there was fuel there....It was instantly high pressure diesel at all four injectors. It still took quite a bit to start her, and she didn't half smoke, so that could well just be glowplugs. He's changing the filter now, just as a precaution and as a service, then we'll change the plugs tomorrow and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 I agree with all the above posts - no smoke = no fuel. Although a different engine my non turbo transit doesn't have glow plugs, instead the pump is meant to advance the fuel timing to match ambient temperature, but it doesn't. So long long as the temperature is above 10c it starts on the button. When its cold it doesn't - but it makes smoke! With the current temperatures you won't need pre-heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share Posted May 8, 2012 Right, an update. Thanks to Phil Faith has four new 12v glowplugs. We fitted them on saturday afternoon, in the rain, and gave her a try. She hadn't been run for something like 22 hours, so any fuel leak back should have been having an effect, and looking at the smoke after she starts it is still leaking. She's being left now to stand, again to let any leaks have an effect, and then Tony will have another go, hopefully taking another video. I have tonight found a CAV check valve fitted to a CAV fuel filter that was on another 19J we got from somewhere. We're going to fit it into the fuel line from lift pump to fuel filter next, on the basis that it should keep fuel in the filter. We'll try it, see what happens, then we'll look at doing clear fuel lines. I've had a measure up tonight, the FIP fittings are M14 x 1.5, and the filter fittings are 1/2" x 20 tpi UNF. I've several meters of 8mm bore clear PVC hose we can use, and then we'll try that aswell and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 You could always try running it from a clean bottle of diesel taped to the windscreen. It's a quick and easy way to diagnose fuel system problems by eliminating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 yes, trouble is, I'm not 100% certain of which pipes do what exactly. We'll try the check valve asap, and get some hose tails on order for fitting clear hose, and report back...again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 There will be two pipes going to the injection pump - these are the ones you can unscrew from the filter and place into the bottle of diesel. One is the feed, the other is the return. Either blank off the holes in the filter (if you can find some bolts the right size) or disconnect the feed to the lift pump. Otherwise you'll have diesel squirting out of the holes in the filter. Don't worry about the injector leak off line - these can stay on the filter. There will only be a very small flow through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 ok, so both the pipes on the FIP then. We'll maybe give it a try first, I quite like the idea of running clear fuel hoses anyway, we'll be able to keep an eye on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Feed in = nearest the HP unions. Return out = nearest the timing case. The pipe thread on the fuel pipes is 1/2"UNF, but one of the ports on the FIP is 9/16"UNF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thanks for that Phil, can check also now that the pipes are the correct way round at fuel filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Long shot but when I rebuilt my 200tdi I got the fip half s tooth out, I used a drill bit to lock the gear in place but there was still a bit of moment, I had exactly the same problem as u did and no glow plugs, lots of smoke. Half a tooth adavnce in my case, started first time every time, with no glow plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 It needs a new belt anyway, we just weren't able to do it when we did the pump swap. I did look at how he'd got the belt set, and I was quite happy with it, the engine was checked and rotated, checked and rotated and checked, and came back the same every time. It will be looked at again this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 And the latest news.... Clear fuel pipes fitted yesterday on the two runs from FIP to filter, i'll quote the text from Tony.... "Definitly getting air from somewhere...A stream of tiny bubbles flow up from the pump to the filter, against the fuel flow all the time it's running. More of them and bigger when revving up." I've told him to get her warmed up and take her for a drive and have another look. when she's been thourghly warmed up she doesn't miss fire, and doesn't smoke of any colour. Is it going to be worth dropping another clear fuel line between lift pump and filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I would be looking at the tank to lift pump pipework as that run is below athmospheric pressure so the air enters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 ^^^^as above. And the lift pump itself. I had a holed one once that didn't leak diesel out, just air in. Funnily enough it was also on a 19J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Will check, thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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