task Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I've started to fit the worked over 4.6 engine to the Range Rover (4.6 + Stage 3 heads + cam shaft) but it's obvious that the standard EFi (14cux hotwire, no cat, no lambda) will be woefully inadequate in the long term. Now from what I can see I have two choices, get a Mark Adams ECU chip for the 14CUX or fit Megasquirt. The car currently has a LPG sequential system fitted that's integrated with the hotwire loom. The MA chip would give me a straight plug-in and go option rather than miles of re-cable (and, if I buy S/H, not break the bank) but won't do spark. Megasquirt appeals to me for the spark side of things but looks more expensive on the face of things and seems like it would be a much more drawn out process, the integration of the LPG wiring worries me. Will this be worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iomlt Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 i have a rpi optimax 14cux ecu currently fuel for a 4.6 on hotwire wiring if that would interest you. open to fairly sensible offer . another option for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would have though having switch map ability with Megasquirt on an LPG equipped car trumps a 14CUX ECU handsomely. All in one box, all the support you could want from here and as much gold as you could eat. Only downside is sorting out the tangle of wires first but that shouldn't be hideous Being stuck with a distributor and only one ignition timing option on a dual fuel car would not be territory I would voluntarily revisit now I have my switch maps MS ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 As I understand it RPi re-sell the Mark Adams chips, so I may be interested depending on which direction I go in, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would have though having switch map ability with Megasquirt on an LPG equipped car trumps a 14CUX ECU handsomely. All in one box, all the support you could want from here and as much gold as you could eat. Only downside is sorting out the tangle of wires first but that shouldn't be hideous Being stuck with a distributor and only one ignition timing option on a dual fuel car would not be territory I would voluntarily revisit now I have my switch maps MS ECU The switch-able maps is very appealing, I plan to do a trip down to Romania next year so having it run correctly on both fuels is a must. Another issue I get currently (on the 3.9 engine) was shunting on over-run primarily on the LPG which is a real PITA as I have a manual G-box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 OK my 2p worth There are a few things to consider (other than costs) before deciding on the route to go, heres my thoughts Things to consider : Costs Time and effort involved Final usage of the engine interest in tuning / fixing Other things to consider Costs Whichever way you cut it the hedgeHog MA Chip will be vastly cheaper than a MS Instal - period If you are going to maybe at some point sell the truck, then the costs difference will make a huge difference to the sale price, as the MS will be around Circa £1000 Time Fitting the MA Chip is a simple and straightforwrd task, where as a full MS nstall will be a couple of weekends at least if done properly. Final usage of the engine What is it going to be used for ?. If its a daily driver road motor with maybe occasional off road play days then the MA Chip system will be OK< if you wnat to use it properly off road then the system will be no better than the standard system when it comes to water. The dizzy will still be the achilles hee. Also rememebr that the delicate part of the 14CUX system are still there - namely AFM which don't like being dunked and are hideously expensive to replace. interest in tuning / fixing The MA Chip is a "Best Guesstmate" of a remapped ECU. Yes it will be far far better than the standard ECU but it will be a bit of a "One size fits all" and once in there unless you pay Mark and a Rolling road time to get it better (and you need software and skil to do it yourself) then you have to stick with whatever he pops into the ECU. It won't give you the abiklity to remap and match it better to your engines own requirements. Additionally you have no self diagnostics as with Megasquirt, nor is it particualrly any different to work on / and the probs you can get from a std 14 CUX system. With MS you can retune the fuelling on your own for free, build it right and you can have a dedicated LPG MAp vs a Petrol Map, and add other things should you wish. You get the ability to diagnose any problems and get rid of the expensive AFM and have real off road waterproofness and reliability. I have 2 x fuelling nmaps in my ECU - a "Power" MAP and a "economy" map, I also haveother maps stored on the tablet - an "Off Road Map" too, basically if you carry a laptop (or in my case a Tablet mounted PC for Sat Nav and MS) then you can shove whatever map you wnat it in about 10 secionds... Also should you do further tweaks - custome exhaust engine tuning tweaks the 14CUX system would need a better best guess map from MA, MS = a self retune to gain the benifits :)however the downside of MS is some peeps get hooked on tweaking a tuning cos they can Other things to consider The Hedgehog chip is going onto a old ECU, if this goes wrong due to age / whatever then you wil have to reinstall chip into another ECU, with MS some peeps who o competition stuff have a spare ECU which is exactly the same as the main one, spares being that the MS ECU can be picky when filed with Mud and water and left to decompose (you know who you are ) . I do explain to people that the hole in the end of the ECU on MS is there to have the tube for vacumn advance fit it - not a exit hole designed to let water and mud out ..... You can get more power / flexility for LPG & Perol with MS, Hedgehg chip will be a single map for fuel The main resons for the cjoices will boil down to How much money you arev prepared to spend What you will be doing with it - do you need waterproofness ? Relibility and the ability to self diagnose Ability to have switchavble maps How long your expecting to keep the truck vs £s spent on it How much you are interested / prepared to fit Full MS System How much you fancy being able to squeze tuning to suit your engine if a "Near" enough and quick cheap solution will be more than goof enough Yer pays yer money I had a hedgehog chip in the old hybrid, and it was worth every penny, but I know how much better MS would be, but its prob 3x the cost and a lot more time The best advice I can give you is to stop, have a good long think, and be 100% sure what and why you end up choosing what you do going the wrong route will be an expensive mistake if you decide it was the wring choice Hope this helps Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 If you were going the megasquirt route, I would suggest that you also considered a wideband lambda sensor (or sensors if you wish to trim banks - MS2), if you are going to go MS3, I would consider a single bank wide band lambda sensor, and maybe something such a Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) measurement for trim... Then there is knock sense that can be added.... None of this is essential, bt you can see how a MS route can grow, + MS3 offers Coil On Plug (COP) or coil near plug.... and sequential injection, no need for EDIS (or an EDIS module) for wasted spark. I don't know what your technical ability / knowledge is, but a wideband sensor offers a major tuning benefit, especially in setting up tables. As Nige said, decide what you want it for, how long you're going to have it, and do you want to fiddle with it ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuck Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Impartial advice there from Nige... EDIS + MS is very, very good but as said is relativley expensive & a bit off a faff to wire up if you don't need it's waterproof aspects.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 Thanks for the advice, as always spot on and very useful. I've chosen a S/H MA ECU for a 4.6 to tide me over for the next 6 months or so while I gather the momentum to 'squirt the Range Rover, the car never goes off-road so waterproof isn't really a aspect I need, however proper home tuning and dual spark maps certainly are I think the MS fit is something I could do over the winter, in the confines of a nice warm garage. I figured I can re-use the MA chip in one of my other 14CUX driven engines when I squirt the rangie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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