AndyLandy46 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Aye, popped a bolt in the end of it and cable tied it but still no luck. I'll try it again later when i'm home and the engine is warm. it may be slightly more receptive to the idea then. However, taking the hose off the carb, and the top off the distributor, by sucking on the pipe I can see the bottom plate moving so I assume it is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Yes if you suck on the carb end of the hose and look in the distributor you will see the top plate move / rotate. You should also be able to hold the vaccum and it doesn't slowly go back (air leak if it does) I had a flame trap originally on mine (black and orange lump (or that's what it appeared to me to be)) midpoint in the vacc advance hose now it appeared that was goosed on mine as I sucked as much as I could and nothing happened in the carb. Bin'd that and the vacc advance worked all fine including with a timing light Does the rotor arm appear loose under gentle rotational movement? Ie does the rotor arm shaft plus rotor arm flop back and forth? There should be some movement here but nothing with a light touch as the top half of the shaft is connected to the bottom half of the shaft via some springs and counterweights in the bottom of the distributor. My springs were stretched and it all was very loose inside. Worth a look for a few mins given this is running on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris200100 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 There shouldn't be any difference if you take the vac off at idle, it really sounds like your timing is way out. When I set the timing on mine I always do it with the vac disconnected and a warm engine. I'd get it checked asap, halfords sell timing guns which arnt too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLandy46 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Vac advance seems to be working well. Rotor arm seems to be quite loose on the shaft. Have a new rotor arm and cap coming tomorrow so hopefully that will correct that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris200100 Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Robert that "flame trap" is a oneway valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Chris, that one way valve, I blew and sucked on it from both directions and got nothing out of it either way so removed it as it appeared not to be doing whatever it should have been doing. If it was a one way valve, how does it work as the vac advance is under vac, great, but what about when the vac decreases and the air now goes in the opposite direction. Anyway I've still got it somewhere but did not fit a replacement one on as I could not find one at the time. Having just looked in my parts manual (hard copy Landrover 90 pre '94), out of curiosity, it gives a part number of ERC6997 and a description of "Delay unit vacuum" ... how the internet has moved on wit online parts (http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/5053/ERC6997-VACUUM-DELAY-VALVE.html) there is a bit of an article on it here (thanks for giving me the heads up on it, I stand corrected and now more educated).... http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Curving-Rover-Dizzy.htm (I put the mallory spring kit listed in the above article link on my distributor (obtained from real steel if I remember) and it totally cured it's lust for rotor arms genuine or cheap).... although I must admit that I've had enough problems with ignition systems to last a lifetime, and have now decided that the best way forward is Coil Near (or on) Plug.... or more correctly for a quality spark regardless of rpm, coil per plug, and get shot of distributor, and EDIS etc (although the EDIS seems to be near bulletproof, just never liked wasted spark with LPG with long runners / plenum full of LPG, different matter with LPG gas injection as the volume is smaller). I was going to megasquirt mine but my lust for power has taken me another route (I still have the full MS2 kit I built years ago, + knock sense, EDIS8, and WBO2 sensor kit (techedge DIY kit built)) so may convert the original engine on a stand (with a sprintex off the shelf [another story]). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLandy46 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 So, bit of an update - Been and got myself a timing light from a friend. Read notes on here, and from the previous owner (he provided an amazing set of meticulous notes) He has marked the crank pulley with a white mark which is 6deg Before TDC. So crank pulley reads ADVANCE - 12 - TDC - <White Mark> - 12 - BEFORE. I have identified the pointer on the block. - Put the timing light on and timing seems way out! The block pointer was pointing at about the E on BEFORE which seems slightly concerning. - So I went to pop out number 1 spark plug and the cable end broke off in my hand...anyway carry on. - Number plug out, piece of thin bar resting on top of the cylinder to find TDC. - TDC mark actually aligns with the block pointer. I assume the lead breaking up wouldn't make the timing 'appear' to be out or would it? (Timing gun triggered from #1 lead) Plan for tomorrow when parts finally arrive. Replace leads, distributor cap, and rotor arm. Then re-check timing, adjust if necessary. Road test. When adjusting the distributor position, is it very fine movements to alter timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I assume the lead breaking up wouldn't make the timing 'appear' to be out or would it? (Timing gun triggered from #1 lead) It could do, basically the timing should not appear to be out but for an erattic running situation anything weak (or loose or on it's way out) may lead to intermittent firing. However that being said the timing light should show up exactly where #1 is firing and even with a break (or about to break) in the cable the high voltage pulse should not be "late"... Things to watch: you have got number 1 and not number 2 in the timing light clamp? (sorry I have to ask..... (not being a smart A££$) the timing light does it have an adjustment on it (some have an advance you can programme into them with a knob on the end of it.... just make sure it's set to zero (or you could set it to 6 degrees and it will show up TDC.... under idle). after changing the plug leads, I'd suggest marking the distributor body and the intake manifold with a marker line before you adjust anything (can always set it back to the last known working position if all else fails....), and then loosen the distributor slightly and rotate gently slowly whilst running the engine + watching the timing light. then rev it slowly and see what advance it gives you you're looking for about 12 to 14 degrees at 2300 rpm, but no more than this. It should also be a smooth advance regardless how fast or slow you increase the revs. same thing when you reduce the revs. The other thing you're looking for is a frequent pulse so you can try the timing light on the other plug leads to show up if there is any erratic firing. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLandy46 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 This is what I was thinking, even if it occasionally misfired on #1 because of the poor lead it is unlikely to shift the 'appearance' of the timing. Had the timing light on the NSR bank on the first cylinder near the front of the vehicle. Didn't realise that about the timing light, will check that before I check the timing again tomorrow. Good idea about marking the distributor body and manifold. When setting the timing I assume I should I do it with the Vac hose off and at a warm idle? Thanks for your help again, lets see what tomorrow night and a bunch of new parts brings! (P.s if you ever want to sell your megasquirt I would probably be interested) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLandy46 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 I'm also thinking that the 'baffles rattling' in the exhaust noise I was hearing might have actually been pinking which ties in with the very advanced timing. Hmmm, likely damage? or is it a case of just setting everything back up and hoping for the best? Engine will probably be pulled apart and overhauled next year anyway :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertspark Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 detonation can normally be seen on the spark plugs with small metal specs on the plug / insulator.... http://www.enginebasics.com/Engine%20Basics%20Root%20Folder/Reading%20Spark%20Plugs.html there is a science to reading plugs, but you have changed them recently, so that avenue is lost. I normally change them in sequence and put them back in the boxes numbered then review them in good light for anything of interest or different between them. serious damage would have occurred and been apparent (plus on the plugs you've changed) it is unlikely on this engine for detonation as the compression ratio is low (8.13:1), the octane rating of uk fuel is not bad and the carbs normally run slightly rich in my experience although it does depend how much advance we are talking too (different animal with an 11:1 comp ratio, but knock sensors are normally standard on the higher compression engines or run them slightly richer, or with colder plugs and cooler thermostat etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLandy46 Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Hi Robert, So checked the old plugs as suggested and no evidence of knocking (phew) Put new leads, dis cap on and it sorted the misfire out! The old leads were in a shocking state, 4 of them snapped when I took them off and all the insulation was splitting on them. Lesson learnt there. They looked OK when they were on the vehicle. Also, set the timing up to 7Deg BTDC, and the engine seems to be running and pulling much better than it was. All in all, I am feeling pretty chuffed. Thank you so much for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101sean Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Been following this as I went through all the same on my 101, your result was better than mine! My misfire was an exhaust lobe on the camshaft worn away Made no difference to performance, just very noisy! Engine has since been rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.