[The Grave yard]

Accidents will occur in all activities and sports.

Reasonable precautions need to be taken in all sports and activities BUT we have to accept that at times things will go wrong and people will get hurt and sometimes killed.

There is a hill on the Coney site that I would not tackle either uphill or downhill even with a full roll cage on a vehicle. I doubt whether many experienced drivers would tackle it.

We must feel sorry for the deceased family and hope that the injured lad gets better soon.

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Recovery eyes made of square section material may be questionable, but any of round cross section should be fine especially when the soft shackle is protected by a reinforcing sleeve.

Nylon thimbles I haven't seen.

jw

JW The nylon thimbles do exactly the same job as the metal thimble at the end of a wire winch ropes. They are used in boating and caving. Inserted into a loop which is going to be loaded and it provides a bigger eye diameter which is good for the rope and good for the breaking strength.

p.s. we seam to have hijacked the 'bridle' thread here - sorry... huh.gif

Hi jack away Rog. I am finding this discussion very informative. It is a natural progression of a conversation. Anything which can make recoveries involving my vehicle safer I want to learn about

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Inserting thimbles would just take back to the potential of flying metal objects, but this time smaller and therefore faster.

Make your own but include a short piece of fire hose or similar to lessen the risk of damage.

jw

I think my brain was lagging behind my typing fingers. You can actually get nylon thimbles which do the same job as the metal thimbles.

I can see the use of these soft shackles in joining ropes together and to bridles. Am just slightly concerned how you attach them to recovery eyes on winch bumpers.

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

I would be reluctant to use them on the typical recovery points which are pieces of 10 mm (?) plate welded to things like winch bumpers etc. I believe that the square metal edge would cut into the soft shackle.

If a recovery point is a round bar such as the Equipe type recovery points then the cutting effect would not be as pronounced.

In testing ropes etc the larger the diameter of the bollards used as end attachment to the test machine then the higher the strength figure obtained. Basically the same principle would apply here.

Now what I am thinking could metal thimbles be used (Like the ones which should be used when attaching a hook to a winch cable) Would certainly help at recovery attachment points on vehicles

I for one certainly think that this idea merits more investigation.

Regards

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Ooops looks like two Yorkshire guys were busy doing the same thing at the same time.

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

http://www.lirosropes.se/pdf/XTREME%20Catalogue.pdf

Here's the company that make the soft shackles. Look at page 16 in this PDF cataloge.

They are very popular in our offroad club here in Dubai and so far I don't think one's been broken. If you decide to get some...go for the biggest size and if in doubt...use two soft shackles togther to half the strain during a pull.

Regards.

Streaky.

Thanks for that link. Looks very promising.

A couple of questions for you. I presume you tie the stopper knot in yourself. Any knot or a special stopper knot?

How easy is it to undo the knot?

Then the last question any idea of prices?

Tis is what Streaky is on about

Regards

Leeds

[Winch Cable]

cheers leeds, great help

(just out of interest, if i said "cleantech", would it open a can of worms?)

Rustworms maybe!!!

But definitely O/T

Regards

Leeds

[Winch Cable]

Ok si i'm not writing a tech on everything you need to know about winch line as i don't actually know anything (apart from the fact that putting a knot into someones plasma the very first time it's used isn't very cool- sorrry tim )

I've looked in tech and can't find anything so can someone who knows answer some questions like:

1. What is plasma- is it a trademark or a generic name for cabling?

2. What is the difference betweent the strand and the cable- ie i know that cables are made from different brand name fibres and it seems that often the way the cable is manufactured is as, if not more, important than the strand itself

3. What are the physical characterstics of plasma- do they all stretch the same amount? are they ALL suseceptible to heat, does sunlight ruin all of them

4. People say wash your winchline- i am sure that this gets the winchline clean but can it have any negative effects? does anyone know for sure. is their a manufacturers approved care "label". i would assume that chandleries would be interested in it.

5. Are there early warning signs of snapping that aren't common knowledge?

6. Shelf life of a rope?

7. are there any reasons why you would want to stay with wire? they resist abrasion much better and give more signs of impending breakage- anything else?

8. are breaking strains of ropes as accurate as winch manufacturers load claims?

there are loads and loads of questions i have like this, but does anyone know from first hand sources.

if anyone fancies writing a full on rope tech then please don't hesitate.

Cheers

I will try and answer some of your questions.

Firstly the physical properties of any polymer construction (i.e. rope or webbing etc) depends on the actual polymer used, the about of draw put on the individual filament and the actual weave/construction of the rope or webbing

Plasma like Dyneema are trade names and refer to the actual filaments which goes into the construction of the ropes.

Plasma etc are gel spun UHMWPE (Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene) which are highly drawn. Drawing of polymers means literally stretching the fibre at elevated temperatures which aligns the molecules/crystals inside the fibres. The result of this is that the physical properties of the polymer filament are altered. In this case the strength and Youngs (Elastic) modulus increases and the extension to failure of the filament decreases. In the case of plasma the extension to failure of a Plasma filament is about 1%. I have never seen a figure for the extension to break of a plasma rope but would guess it would be in the region of 3-5%

In comparison a steel wire rope would have an extension to failure of 10-15%. What this means is that a Plasma rope is stronger and stiffer then an equivalent steel rope. A steel rope needs more energy to break then a plasma rope. This means a steel rope is more 'forgiving' under shock load situations.

Polyethylene has a melting point of about 125C, polyesters and nylons have melting point in range 230-260C. All polymers strengths decrease with increasing temperature. I would guess that plasma strengths starts to fall dramatically above 70 C

Sunlight over time has an effect on all polymers. The effect depends on the amount of UV stabiliser in the polymer and the amount of exposure. If a plasma rope is used reasonably frequently this effect should be discounted as the detrimental effect of use/abuse abrasion and contamination will outweigh any detrimental effect of UV

Best way of washing a Plasma rope is probably to anchor it in a fast flowing stream. Do NOT use a pressure washer on a polymer rope. Bung it in a washing machine? Dont tell the wife, don't use washing powder and dont use the hot dry cycle.

Shelf life? Keep it dry, cool and in the dark then the shelf life would be ages but is difficult to quantify

Hope that helps a bit

Regards

Leeds

[The Grave yard]

Was after a new digital SLR. After taking advice from various people I phoned Rachel up who is Mike Gemini's daughter. Rachel is quite a mean photographer, knows her cameras and also knows Land Rovers. (Hardly surprising being Mike's daughter)

I told her my budget for camera and lenses and the type of photography I did. She recommended a camera body that I was thinking of with two lenses including a 28-300mm lens.

She went a grand total of £10 over my budget BUT I also got a monopod, decent camera backpack and a 2GByte flash card and delivery as well!

So if you want to buy a decent camera give Rachel a ring in Jessops, Gateshead on 0191 460 6160.

You will get good advice, a good price and delivery.

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

Mark Jenkins has some ready-made bridles. Not sure where he got them from, but I'll give him a nudge.

Les.

Thanks Les.

Hi Streaky I would certainly be interested in seeing a photo/web address etc for these synthetic rope shackles. I am always interested in seeing how different people do things.

I now have twin recovery points on the back of the 110 as well as the front so started reassessing all my recovery gear. One of the thing I noticed was UNstamped shackles along with some stamped ones so will have to replace them as well.

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic Recovery Bridles]

I need a new recovery bridle for the 110 and am considering various options.

One such option is to make a bridle out of a KERR. Have some questions before I start.

Is it a good or bad idea to have a bridle made out of KERR?

How easy is it to splice an eye into KERR?

Has anyone got instructions or diagrams on how to splice KERR that they could post up?

Regards

Leeds

['you can come in here, but you'll get shot']

A slightly different scenario, I used to work as a ranger for the Peak District National Park. A lot of moorland in the National Park is privately owned or owned by the local water boards etc. Open access has been reached on places such as Kinder Scout and Bleaklow where very few public footpaths/ROW exist. These moors can be closed for up to 12 or 4 days per year to allow grouse shooting to take place.

The dates of the moor closures are advertised in the local press and are posted around the relevant moors. The public footpaths can NOT be closed even if they cut straight through the middle off the shooting area. At either end of the public footpaths entering/a shooting area a person was posted who explained the situation. When the shoot was active close to a public footpath walkers were politely asked to wait for 10 minutes until the shoot moved onto the next beat. Most walkers I met were quite happy to take a 10 minute rest and I never met one who insisted on their legal right to walk the public footpath whilst the shoot was active close to it.

Politeness and accurate information seemed to work out fine for both sides when I worked for the National Park.

Regards

Leeds

[The Grave yard]

Lets face it, in Bliar's Britain the scumbags have more legal rights then the ordinary mainly law abiding citizen.

If some scumbag gets hurt whilst they are knowingly committing a criminal offence and refuse to obey a police officers legal order to stop then TOUGH LUCK. Their rights to sue the police (as long as police are acting legally) and/or claim compensation goes right out f the window when they knowingly commit a criminal offence.

It is barking mad that a builder/houseowner can secure their property and a scumbag breaks in an falls down a staircase that has been removed/floorboards that have been lifted etc. The property owner has not exercised due care to the scumbag. To add insult to injury it is the tax payer who picks up the tab for sumbags legal representation

Lets protect the normal citizen and NOT the scumbags in society.

Regards

Leeds

[£1 map pockets]

Leeds, they're in the baby section. In our local one they where hanging on those vertical hangers that they put in corners. They are called the babytime Stroller carry bag and are priced at 79p on the card in the clear plastic bag. I missed them first time round so i had to send the good lady in to find them, which she did

Mo

Thanks Mo, must admit I missed them. Will try again later or send female in to ask for them.

Maybe it is a man thing to miss things in the baby section!

Regards

Leeds

[£1 map pockets]

So why didn't it work when I searched for 'map'? Grr. Thanks chaps, more reasons to shop at Morrisons evidently.

Went shopping at a large Morrisons today. Could not find them and when I ake the floor manager about them he had no idea about tem.

So is it only certain Morrisons who sells them or is it a different shop?

Regards

Leeds

[Kinetic rope snapping]

Monkeys....

if a KERR needs a knot in it, then it should be heading for the bin...

I'm a fan of KERR ropes, as used properly they're very good, but used like that they are a lethal weapon.

A knot in any rope/webbing will lower the effective strength to being between 50-80% of the 'normal' strength of the rope.

Knots in recovery gear is a big NO NO

Regards

Leeds

[Salvage Prices]

Sorry to hear about your accident.

The first thing to remember is that you own the vehicle and not the insurance company! A lot of insurance companies do not understand Land rovers and the fact that you can swap chassis on Land Rovers is beyond a lot of insurance companies. Make sure that the LR is stored at your local LR specialist. Have a few words wit them and ask them for the correct wording.

It is something like you want 'cash rather then repairs' Repairing a LR with 2nd hand wings etc is a lot cheaper then using new parts.

Regards

Leeds

[Do you speak Spanish or Catalan?]

Hi

yes we have had days of fun with the 104 rutas de espana and there are several others... although they are all in spanish but with road books and fairly easy to follow. The only problem can be in the little villages where there are no sign posts and very very narrow streets which you struggle to navigate in 110s, Discos etc...

Have fun

Cheers

TD5Spain

Thanks TD5.

Must admit we were following GPS through a small village in the Picos. Fortunately I use GPS as guidance rather then as something which must be obeyed at all costs.

The GPS was trying to send us down 'streets' in which donkeys with twin panniers on would struggle to get through!

Yes Spain can be fun and we are looing forward to our next trip

Regards

Leeds

[Do you speak Spanish or Catalan?]

Hi TD5Spain, I for one who like to have as many details of guide books etc For Spanish/Portugal green lanes/off road .

So can you post up a list of guide books etc (preferably in English but I do have my own personal translator) for different areas of Spain

We had a good time in the Picos and fancy spending some time in the Pyrnees and Portugal so any guidance would be gratefully received

Regards

Leeds

[Do you speak Spanish or Catalan?]

Chris

Try "Bittersweet" over on LRO Forum.

She is fluent and generally helpful.

John

Yep she is fluent in Spanish and is normally helpful!!

There again I might be accused of being biased!! LOL

I don't think she is registered on here but send me full details of the web address etc by PM and I will get her to look at it when she comes in.

I would be interested to get a copy of any info you get about driving in the Prynees.

Apparently there is a guide book i Spanish which shows how to drive the length of the Pyrnees on dirt tracks It gives GPS coordinates and tulip diagrams. Be warned though the Spanish authorities take a dim view of people driving off road. This was told us by a Spanish 110 driver in Norway we met up with last year.

If you want any questions asking on a Spanish LR forum give us a shout and I will get B to post the for you

Regards

Leeds

PS It is good fun volunteering someone else when they are not around, is'nt it??

[Winching At Work.]

Hi Matt, had a quick look in my winch kit bag this afternoon. Some of my shackles are embossed with the safe working load of 3.75 tons(?) others equally as beefy in dimensions not marked. Ooops

Will have to get all kit out and carefully check not only the condition but also whether its correctly rated and stamped as such. If not they will be replaced!!

One of my pet hates are the tiny mickey mouse shackles you see dangling from some peoples recovery points. About as much use as a chocolate fire guards.

The trouble is whilst things are going well most people don't worry, but things can go tits up very quickly and people can be seriously hurt or killed

Regards

Leeds

[Winching At Work.]

Hi Matt,

Whereas the safety rating on a strop may be 7:1 it is there for a purpose. The strop will get damaged in normal use and the UTS will drop from about 14,000kg.

The strop should be capable of bearing a load of 2,000 kg even if it has a reasonable amount of damage to it. This helps to keep the manufacturer on the right side off the law

You have mentioned the capacity off the winch BUT have not said what the capacity of the steel rope/hook etc is. There might be a mismatch of the wire and the winch.

As for not being fired for raising safety issues with your employers, whilst it is unlikely they will take a different viewpoint if anything goes wrong.

I know of a case where fly shunting was done on steelworks (fly shunting is illegal on BR lines). The management were aware of this as it was brought up on a regular basis at meetings. When something went wrong the crew involved got fired but the management stayed put!

Good luck with your meeting. Keep us informed off the outcome.

Must admit will now have to go and check ratings on all my winch kit

Regards

Leeds

[Hands Free Kit]

What LR are you fitting your kit to?

Hope this helps, if you need any more info just shout.

SHOUT

Fitting one to the 110 and one to a Disco 2. The hybrid it is not worth bothering with due to noise level in it.

Currently using Sony Ericsons phones. I would prefer not to have to dock the phone so that I am not tempted to leave phone in LR. We have 3 SE phones between us. Understand that some of these systems can log upto 5 phones, but do they just log onto one at a time? Do you have to notify it which phone is active?

Ideally would want the system live from putting ignition key in and not have to activate anything. The device reading texts would be a bonus but not essential.

The Tom Tom 910 works okish but its internal mike is not brillant. External mike fitted on windscreen blind means lead dangling around. The Tom Tom does read texts out as well. Problem with Tom Tom is that it's not always in vehicle/plugged in for security reasons

Regards

Leeds

[Hands Free Kit]

Am looking for a hands free kit for the Land Rovers

Have tried a blue tooth ear piece thing but am not right impressed with them. The tom tom is ok but don't always have it on.

So any advice re blue tooth hands free kit?

Are portable ones any good? Or do I need to have one hard wired in each vehicle?

How many phones can they be paired with?

Any other points to look at?

Regards

Leeds

[Sat Nav/GPS Eastern Europe]

Hi Paul, just be careful about roads in Romania. People are getting into trouble in the UK ollowing sat navs. In West Yorkshire they are being directed up green lanes (OK technically roads but!!) which are totally unsuitable for the average car, let alone goods vehicle.

My photos on the other threads are of roads marked on the 1:300,000 road map of Romania.

An example for you.

Romania roads must knock hell out of a low slung modern car!!

Regards

Leeds

PS Let us know the final results of your research