redrodant
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Posts posted by redrodant
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So, playing devil's avocado here, if trucks have to comply with C&U not just MOT, and assuming you can't just cherry-pick things like anchors on the bumper, you're effectively saying the scrutineers have to conduct an SVA on-site for each truck and if it fails they get bumped a class? Given that a standard Defender won't pass an SVA, this seems a rather big vat of worms to be opening?
:ph34r: Thats an awfull lot to look at, and a huge responcability! I wonder if MSA scrutaneers will have to be used??
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I used 100M as an extreme example, basically yes, but that's not very friendly, so hence all our tape and no winching outside the area and building spectator areas on some sections etc. in 2011 if all use synthetic rope then the area can be reduced and will be less of an issue.
Other competitors are also excluded!!! Just the 2 x crew and the 1x official are allowed!
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I wondered about some of this: I assume that hydraulic test points, regular winch rope proof tests and mandatory IVAs for un-registered vehicles (I can see HMGov just loving that one) are going to make it all a bit tedious
Here's a reply from Ian for a question i posed. I read this as we need a lot more marchells on events!!!!!!! Or a lot less Punches
Dear Dave
Winches are not to used or deployed unless in an area made safe and under the direct control of an official of the event.
Punch Hunt type events are not Challenge Events per say and indeed this is where a lot of confusion is. The Cross Country Committee is currently preparing amendments to the Orienteering regulations which will allow for a Punch Hunt type of event although the purpose of the event is to navigate and drive to the objectives.
If the event requires the use of a winch then it is to be in an area exclusively for that purpose and suitably taped.
The reduction in the area when using a synthetic rope is in respect of the area to the side of the winch deployment and behind. There is no formula but that of common sense. The objective of the area is to exclude persons other than the competing crew and officials from the potential whip of a failed winch cable. Since a synthetic rope tends to discard stored energy with less drama and has little or no whip, the area behind the vehicle and to the sides may be reduced accordingly.
Regards
Ian R Davis
Regional, Rallies &
Cross Country Executive
The Royal Automobile Club Motor Sports Association Limited
DDI 01753 765039
www.msauk.org
MOTOR SPORTS HOUSE I RIVERSIDE PARK I COLNBROOK I SL3 0HG I ENGLAND
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-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Ellard [mailto:dave@rngp.org]
Sent: 16 August 2010 21:35
To: Ian Davis
Cc: Dave Middleton; Ian Potts
Subject: Re: Challenge rules changes
Please can you answer a queary i have.
Basicly we seem to be more and more Just hang punches on trees, not
using any tape,or boundries at all, and just letting the competitors
find there own way too and away from the punch the best way they think
is appropriate. How will this work with the steel cable rule?????? .
Also when u say "if synthetic rope is specified in the sr's then this
distance may be reduced" what sort og reduction do u have in mind???
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The new rules seem to state 1 isolator for all electrics!
P58.2.4. Isolate all electrical circuits. If you have an electrical winch then yes that includes that. We haven't specified that the kill switch must be to K8, and yes you need to use an appropriate rated switch that is wired to do that job.
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You may be right about the overkill but I've burn the contacts out on the switches before with a bit of extensive winching, espicially on a three winch set up,
so after I've spent a fortune on diesel dragging the motor half way around the country, an entry fee, followed by a weekend away, and to be put out by a £15 switch then yes overkill is a fantastic tool, a bit like reliabilty really, great when you have it, carp when you don't,,,,,
Thank for all the info
So what switch will best suit challenge trucks so they comply with the new MSA regd for jan 2011. Basicly it has to cut all electrical power, including all winches, and kill the engine. -
Anyone know how much amperage a winch will pull??? and is there a cutout switch rated hi enough???? what about multi motored winches "gigglepins" other brands are valable?? what do these draw????
Also do all winches come with overload safty's ????
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I would do your research and make up your own mind!
I am
but there seems to be 2 different tyres used, a push in socket, and a pendant thing 
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Having seen these used i was wondering how good they are, and what people's experiances of them are??
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Well after 2 full days of eating dust I've just dived out of the shower.
Great weekend, very very hot, vey dusty, very tiring,
Manys thanks to the local Welsh rallyclub for running screaming rally cars out all night on the lanes around the site, to the bloke with the shotgun at 4.30am, for the cow at the farm calling all night for her calf, and the dawn Chorus at 4.50'ish was fantastic, I ended up like Victor Meldrew trying to get some kip.
Broke 3 ropes Saturday and nearly flattened Dan Thomas (who was below me) with a backflip when it went but thankfully it settled on a tree.
Lost a trackrod end of the steering bar Sunday in a section later, then a puncture with the tyre of the rim (halfway up a big pull) then much to Dans amusment couldn't get back in the motor after we changed it, then finally lost the solonoid on the rear winch.
But thorougly enjoyed ever minute of it, some very good punches, a couple of great Special stages, especially the one the "numties from Stoke" rolled on, thanks to Matt and the crew, the Marshalls again friendly and helpfull, always smiling.
Thanks to all including the competitors and hopefully see you all soon.
Chris
Chris ur priceless -
Anyone bring a camera
Sounds like a cracking weekend
, that i missed out on -
Thanks Dave, whats happend to the midland entries then! Surely a two event with the potential of 160 punches and 4 SS isnt too much you guys
I asked, but most we curing mechanical problems, cutting bitz off, welding bitz on, had no drive, no winches working, or just doing other stuff
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Goodluck to all enterants, dont drink too much will u
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LRS Round 4 (coney Green)
Weekend Went well,BBQ, football on telly, A beverage or 2
, O and some driving and winching too 
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Maybe 2 more on monday, lrs challenge brakages willing
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was a good day have to say even if i did bend my roll cage lol
Why were u trying to push that tree over with ur door anyway
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Well it ran, so u must have done a reasonable job in ur sleepthats what finishing rebuilding your engine 2.5 hours before your due to leave does to you lol.
. Coney will be next in a few weeks, may i suggest u get a tent & some beer, & some bbq food and stay saterday night like the rest of us
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The LRS challenge
Priceless 
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lol as you could see i didnt even wash mine but then didnt have time realy not a bad site some good punchs any way i thought wranglers were supposed to be reliable from what i been told
loads of LRS Challenge pictures avalable here!!
The Linal crew decided they felt sorry for u, so ditched the front prop to give u a chance . ps ur eyes should be at the front of ur face, not the back -
no just a few soft war wounds soon got a new bit of cage welded in only trouble is friday i dropped the pistons out and only got sat to put it back together
Well where all ready, just a winch solinoid, and a nice yellow ribbon fitted
so hopefully u wont have to winch us around the punches all day , kim ant even bothered to wash it,(mind u his drive could do with rotervating at the rate he's going he's going to need even bigger tyres just to get onto the drive -
Many thanks for the great feedback we got from you all at Nant Y Ffrith today, thank you to all of you that attended and supported round 2. Its a pleasure to put on the events for such a great bunch of drivers and winch man. Thank you also to all our marshals and officials who with out there help the events just wouldn't be possible. we look forward to seeing you all after the break at our next round in October. We look forward to seeing you all then.
As promised the results for round 2 at Nant y Ffrith can be found on the following link to The Clubman Challenge wesbite and clik on round 2 reults Round 2 Results
Anyone got any pictures??
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Its got a smack waggon AND a bugger van ????????
Well thats all down to young tyrone, maybe hes refering to his truck, as ge seemed to have BUGGERED it up a bit at the last challenge
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You know how to tempt us, are we limited to just three visits?
Phill is! its only a smack wagon, not a bloody "all u can eat for a £5er"
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Places are limated for the next round,End of month at yarwell, so if u want to come play best get finger out
O and there will be a snack wagon on site for ur breakfast, lunch, and mid afternoon snack Pre booked in Marchells get concessions, but over half already filled Book here!
:ph34r: 
So what switch will best suit challenge trucks so they comply with the new MSA regd for jan 2011. Basicly it has to cut all electrical power, including all winches, and kill the engine.
but there seems to be 2 different tyres used, a push in socket, and a pendant thing 
, that i missed out on 
, O and some driving and winching too 
Winch amparage question
in Competing in Land Rovers
Posted
Actually it means 3 people, 2x competitors "known as a team" and 1x official!!=3!
Definition of a Challenge Event is;
(k) Challenge Event. An event the aim of which is for
competitors to manoeuvre their vehicles to a remote
location by means of driving, towing and or winching,
or any combination thereof and where proof of
visiting that location is by way of the scorecard, which
shall be permanently attached to the vehicle, being
officially marked.
And yes you need to either have a minimum of an official per objective or per team.
Self Recovery off section. See P1.2.1.
P1.2.1. With the exception of Team and Winch Recovery
events, all recovery operations will be under the control
of the Clerk of the Course.
Now strictly speaking we should add Challenge Events to P1.2.1. to cover sefl recovery on section.
We havent proposed Punch Hunt as such but to cater for events where winches arent required the following is about to go out for consultation;
(b) Cross Country Orienteering. An event involving a cross country map reading exercise where the use of a vehicle is merely incidental as a means of transport,and in which the experience or skill of a Driver plays no part. navigating and driving a vehicle to an objective, or series of objectives.
This you will note is an amendment to the Orienteering Regulations.
Essentially then a Challenge is an extreme version of Orienteering where objectives may not always be reached by unassisted driving. The revisisons to Orienteering allow for an event where comnpetitors can drive directly to the objective.