[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

I went back and checked my old 3 link calculator numbers, didn’t look right so I remeasured the truck and found an error... correcting the numbers, the anti-dive works out about 190%.

The new frame mounts work out about 240%.... eek ! I guess it’s back to the drawing board.

I can’t move the centre link up on the cross member as noted above, so, time to revisit the radius arm frame mounts. Using the calculator, if I drop them 4” and move them back 2” we get an AD of about 130%.

Modifying the existing parts, this is what we have so far...

 

Am thinking a rear support bracket as before and a gusset across the back of the side plates will be strong enough as it’s all in 3/8” material.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

On 1/9/2021 at 3:47 AM, landroversforever said:

For your chassis end of the upper link... I've designed mine with some adjustment in mind so I've got 3 different positions. From memory they're 1" spacings vertically and they give me about 10/15% change in the AS value per hole change.

I looked at doing that but it just won’t work without major modifications to the exhaust to give the up travel clearance at full bump.

I welded out the new cross member yesterday, should have the frame end link parts this week.

The calculator numbers with my SG style setup are not great but it does for what I need, the numbers for this setup are somewhat better and I’m mostly building it to get away from the LR axle weaknesses and lack of readily available spares here.

Realistically it’ll see virtually no highway use and the trail heads are only 5 minutes from my house.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Decided I didn’t like the ‘drop down’ radius arm mounts, so went back to a simpler mount that bolts directly into the stock location.

After tacking them up, I decided they looked too chunky... so, they went on a diet !
 

Third link mount was also adjusted to give a bit more up travel (drawn upside down).

Just waiting now for the parts to be recut in 3/8” material. Then to assemble along with a new 3rd link x-member.

Front spindles and hubs are now off to the machine shop for modifications to take 35 spline shafts & convert to LR lug pattern.

 

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Did some more work on the front axle, drew up the spring mounts... made some mock-ups out of foam board.

After a few tweaks had then water jet cut & bent.

Front axle as far as I can get it now until it’s under the truck & I can figure out the new frame side track bar mount, track & steering linkages.

 

[CCV 80” 4 Link]

Check out this D2 front 3 link install from Nate @ Dirt Lifestyle, it’s surprisingly easy to do and you could always add tons as well 😉

Dirt Lifestyle 1 Ton D2 build

[Centred diff on rear axle... drive line vibes ?]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Ended up building it centred... will see how it goes. Realistically it’ll not see any highway miles so if it does vibrate, not big deal.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

8 hours ago, uninformed said:

I’m guessing 8” wide or more? 
 

Also guessing you already had them... and I probably should not say this as you can’t change what you have done, but if building custom housings why not make them wider and go positive offset.. you get a few benefits.

 

I also would have triangulated your rear trailing arms. 
 

but keep at it bud. 👍

Yup, already had the rims and can’t afford to replace them and loose $3500 as realistically no one wants 15” rims these days... most common size here for trail trucks is 17” now.

i moved the rear arms out a bit (1/2”) but I want this a straight swap in and I know it works as is. Now back to finishing off the truck so I can get it decal’d.... winter is coming !

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

2 hours ago, uninformed said:

every bit helps.

 

What rim size and offset/backspace are you running?

 

15” Stazworks double beadlock, with 2.5” of back spacing.... should have been more but they messed up the order. Didn’t know until they arrived & too late then to fix them then.....

Did get the rear axle just about finished, just needs a few threaded blocks to fix the brake lines too welding on the back side.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

On 9/18/2020 at 6:27 AM, landy_andy said:

I should be able to move the axle end of the lowers out by 1” on both sides (or at least right up against the inner C’s) due to the axles being wider, will check tonight.

At worst, these numbers are significantly better than radius arms 😁

Have already ordered a couple of joints to mock up the arms to check for binding at full stuff & flex 😉

Managed to move the axle ends out a small amount, with the brackets hard against the inner ‘C’ the RAA dropped to 6.18 degrees. Best we can get I think for now.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

8 hours ago, uninformed said:

Can you push the axle end of lowers outwards to gain a little triangulation? That would lower Axle Roll Axis. Or remote your oil filter, move both upper and lowers up to get a similar Anti lift number with lower ARA. If you are keeping the stock Radius arm mount and building custom off that, make sure your arm doesn’t fowl on it at full up cross articulation.

I should be able to move the axle end of the lowers out by 1” on both sides (or at least right up against the inner C’s) due to the axles being wider, will check tonight.

At worst, these numbers are significantly better than radius arms 😁

Have already ordered a couple of joints to mock up the arms to check for binding at full stuff & flex 😉

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Sketched up this lower link bracket, sandwiches around the existing frame mount. Need to get a 1” bolt & nut to work spacing out for the back brace. Needs a bit more work but I think I’ll be beefy enough in 3/8” plate.... 😉

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

So, if I use my existing 3 link x-member as a datum, make the upper link off he front of it, make some new lower mounts that move the frame end back & downwards, then accept an axle separation of 6” we get.....

 

This is using the stock panhard frame & axle locations so, those numbers will probably change  a bit once I get the axle under the truck and adjust for the revised steering linkages.

Doing this gives me just enough up travel for the upper link to not crunch the oil filter. If I made that remote then I’d be able to squeeze a bit more axle separation but as the links are virtually above & below centre line it’s probably not worth it.

Thoughts.....

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

3 hours ago, Red90 said:

If you "can do anything" then throw all that stock geometry in the garbage.  At the lift height you are at, it gives poor geometry.  You want 4 link in the front with much longer links. To me it is crazy limiting yourself to stock mount locations.

Been looking at it this morning, without remaking the exhaust Y pipe, and relocating the oil filter I’m really stuck with room for the upper link at full stuff for a reasonable axle link separation and am also limited by my saddle gas tanks & skid plates.

If I use the existing front mount as a hard point and build a bracket that sits below & behind it I gain 5” of link length and reduce the effective angle of a radius arm to about 10 degrees or less over mounting in front with the bracket I posted earlier.

So, from this...

to this...

Would make it much better geometry and less reactive to pushing up.

Really need to get the truck on the road and make the 609 axles a ‘bolt in’ swap (apart from the panhard & steering links etc) in spring or when I can afford to buy/build the 3rds.

Thinking the existing front chassis mounts are beefy enough to accept some rotational moment from the new brackets being hung off them. Could always brace into the frame behind them with a bolted through gusset.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

3 hours ago, uninformed said:

The only way you will do that is by raising the chassis end of your 3rd link. Im sure you have done what you can, but with those chassis limitations, your anti lift is going to suck.

Yup, tried that and to get anywhere sensible the link needs to be inside the gearbox. No room on the frame side due to the exhaust and even then at full stuff the link is hard up against the oil filter with a 4” axle top link to get a reasonable axle end separation approaching 25% of tire height.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

9 hours ago, Red90 said:

The roll calcs do not work as he is not using a triangulated 4 link, but a 3 link with panhard.  You need to use the 3 link calculator to get the roll info.

Yes, I know.... more interested in getting the AD down at present if I can, otherwise it’ll be some radius arms. Will stick the numbers into the 3 link sheet with the current track bar & post up.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Been working on what sort of suspension links to use, currently have my 3 Link setup but as the axle is a blank canvas and I can weld on whatever I want... ran the numbers for radius arms & a 3 link setup using the existing frame side & cross member mounts.... interestingly the radius arms have better AD number, not as low as I’d like but not 190% either.

Radius arms

3 links

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

They look beefy...

Off Chevy 1 ton trucks, probably the most common upgrade in NA apart from using heims. Some vehicle inspectors can get a bit iffy with heims as we’re not really allowed to use them in BC.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Thinking steering will be this using Moog & Barnes 4x4 parts....

TRE part numbers, note the longer tie bar end needs the hole reaming to accept the drag link end.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Brackets are only tacked on, will turn the power down when I burn them in. As a note the axle tubes are 3.5” OD x 3/8” wall DOM, so more resilient to heat effect when welding brackets on it but still need to be cognizant of it.

Worked on the front axle yesterday, used then jig for initial alignment then dropped it on stands to allow it to be checked more easily as I tacked it up. Worked a lot better and only needed a little pull on the short side to adjust.

Finally, added the knuckles & to start working out for the steering links etc.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Pinion angle worked out for a straight swap into the truck, spring pads & caliper brackets tacked on. Just need lower link brackets to finish up the welding.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

One is a happy chappy..... got both sides within 0.25 degrees of true, so that’ll be less than 3/16”. Without some pucks & an alignment I bar can’t really get any closer.

 

 Next to set the pinion angle, add the spring & other brackets whilst I ponder a truss for it.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

I didn’t do a cooler root pass, just lots of tacks & burnt it in hot. Am thinking that’s what made it move more than the opposite side.

Also, the jig has some flex in it too I’ve found, being a clamped assembly onto the rectangular tube. Have to figure a way to clamp it to the bench for the front axle or do the tacks & root in the jig then use the jack & chain for final burn in.

The original jig design used a large plate with the sides bent down, I modified it to use the tube to save costs. Might be better to get some 5” x 5” tube rather than the 5” x 2” I got... but that’s all the metal shop had in stock at the time that’d work.

Thinking of just putting a ‘T’ shaped top truss on it once I set the pinion angle & gets the spring pads on.

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

So.. bit of a problem, checked & rechecked the tubes for deflection in respect to the front face & the drivers side is 3/8” rearward..... darn I said !

Out came the grinder & bye bye went the rear side welds trying not to gouge the tube too much. Next set it up with the jack off my Halfords pipe kinker & a chain. Tube pulled back quite easily and with a bit of additional pull to account for spring back it all sits true.... now just to decide how much preload to apply before I burn it all back in ?
 

Educated thoughts ?

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Decided to mock it up with the 3rd & pinion angle gauge.

 

[Cheap'ish 609 axle builds]

Got the rear axle tubes, assembly time !