V8 Freak Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Most suggestions are that the sensor is being affected by the prolonged use of the starter motor. “the starter's electromagnetic field might affect the crank sensor sometimes...in this case you'll have a "noisy crank signal" fault code logged” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymc123 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) On 10/8/2017 at 7:21 PM, yan46 said: I'm based in Southampton. Yes there's definitely air in the system i can't seem to get out. I've done the ignition on wait 3 mins or so until the fuel pump stops and ignition off and repeat process about 6 times and nothing. If I crank the motor and stop and immediately try again, it wants to start but just can't. I inherited the td5 with the problem. I was told it ran fine until it was run dry of fuel. I've tried hooking the battry up with my car for that extra boost but nothing. Thought I'd plug my nanocom back and I got: my nanocom has now picked up INJECTOR 1 PEAK CHARGE SHORT, (LOGGED). INJECTOR 2 PEAK CHARGE SHORT, (LOGGED). INJECTOR 3 PEAK CHARGE SHORT, (LOGGED). INJECTOR 4 PEAK CHARGE SHORT, (LOGGED). INJECTOR 5 PEAK CHARGE SHORT, (LOGGED). I'm assuming these are old faults as they are 'logged'. Argh Td5 fuel system!! Could these showing up as faults not be the result of you disconnecting the injector harness to remove the injectors when you changed the washers and seals? BTW, make sure connector on the injector wiring harness where it exits the rocker cover is clicked into place. Also, that the injectors were bottoming out when they were set as i messed about for long enough wondering why mine wasn't starting after I read the procedure wrong and just bottomed out the locking nut when it bottomed out on the top of the injector! Edited October 25, 2017 by gerrymc123 Clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 18 minutes ago, gerrymc123 said: Could these showing up as faults not be the result of you disconnecting the injector harness to remove the injectors when you changed the washers and seals? Good point however I was pretty much careful while changing the seals so I'm unsure how these faults have turned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymc123 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just now, yan46 said: Good point however I was pretty much careful while changing the seals so I'm unsure how these faults have turned up. I think you'll find that's what it was as i had the same. Re-read my post again as i edited it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, gerrymc123 said: Could these showing up as faults not be the result of you disconnecting the injector harness to remove the injectors when you changed the washers and seals? BTW, make sure connector on the injector wiring harness where it exits the rocker cover is clicked into place. Also, that the injectors were bottoming out when they were set as i messed about for long enough wondering why mine wasn't starting after I read the procedure wrong and just bottomed out the locking nut when it bottomed out on the top of the injector! I could recheck the injectors and while at it replace the washers/seals with OEM ones. I'm pretty sure I did everything correctly as I've done this job a few times successfully on my other TD5's I once owned. I could have had a lapse of concentration and did something incorrectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymc123 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Another thing, I haven't got a Nanocom but i have a Lynx, it can trigger the injectors one at a time and you hear the audible click of each one as it triggers which indicate there's nothing awry, if the Nanocom has that function it's always another thing eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Did you set the injectors with them on the cam (ie fully depressed injector side, rocker fully raised on the cam) When fully depressed by the cam, loosen the lock nut, screw the adjuster down until it bottoms out and then screw back out one full turn. Tighten the lock nut. Do the same for all 5.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymc123 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 16 minutes ago, V8 Freak said: Did you set the injectors with them on the cam (ie fully depressed injector side, rocker fully raised on the cam) When fully depressed by the cam, loosen the lock nut, screw the adjuster down until it bottoms out and then screw back out one full turn. Tighten the lock nut. Do the same for all 5.... That's the part I balls up on my first attempt as I had done everything spot-on up to the point I screwed the adjustment down far enough that it then pressed on the injector plunger instead of carrying on until the injector itself had bottomed out before then backing off the 1 turn. If nothing else this confession might prevent someone else making the same mistake. BTW, perhaps someone else has already asked earlier, you said you acquired the Defender with the fault but have you actually ever seen the engine running? Edited October 25, 2017 by gerrymc123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Received this from Simon... “OK here we go.. She's been run dry, injectors out and been stood. Confirm the fuel pressure at the FPR where the temperature sensor sits. This is ideally 4 bar but 3.8 bar is adequate and make sure she holds that steady. I appreciate after faffing about it was holding at 1.5 bar however this could be for various reasons. If this is all good: Bleed her up using the bleed sequence (5 times on the pedal - which works for bot MSB and NNN by the way). Do this 3 - 4 times. Then... 2 man job. Give it a good snort of brake cleaner up the MAF whilst cranking her over. Start cranking first then start spraying up the MAF. May take a few seconds to start spluttering into life, then she should go. 10p engines are notorious to bleed up after running out of fuel. I also notice that the Crank sensor has been changed. If it starts throwing up errors it may need a shim under it. They are available form LR for less than £5. Even so it should still run. The injector peak charge short may well be down to trying to start with a low voltage battery as the 85v switch mode PSU in the ECU does drop quite quickly when battery voltage is low, so am not too worried about that at the moment.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, gerrymc123 said: Another thing, I haven't got a Nanocom but i have a Lynx, it can trigger the injectors one at a time and you hear the audible click of each one as it triggers which indicate there's nothing awry, if the Nanocom has that function it's always another thing eliminated. Nanocom has that feature and yes I can hear the click from all injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, V8 Freak said: Did you set the injectors with them on the cam (ie fully depressed injector side, rocker fully raised on the cam) When fully depressed by the cam, loosen the lock nut, screw the adjuster down until it bottoms out and then screw back out one full turn. Tighten the lock nut. Do the same for all 5.... yep that's what I done Edited October 25, 2017 by yan46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 28 minutes ago, V8 Freak said: Received this from Simon... “OK here we go.. She's been run dry, injectors out and been stood. Confirm the fuel pressure at the FPR where the temperature sensor sits. This is ideally 4 bar but 3.8 bar is adequate and make sure she holds that steady. I appreciate after faffing about it was holding at 1.5 bar however this could be for various reasons. If this is all good: Bleed her up using the bleed sequence (5 times on the pedal - which works for bot MSB and NNN by the way). Do this 3 - 4 times. Then... 2 man job. Give it a good snort of brake cleaner up the MAF whilst cranking her over. Start cranking first then start spraying up the MAF. May take a few seconds to start spluttering into life, then she should go. 10p engines are notorious to bleed up after running out of fuel. I also notice that the Crank sensor has been changed. If it starts throwing up errors it may need a shim under it. They are available form LR for less than £5. Even so it should still run. The injector peak charge short may well be down to trying to start with a low voltage battery as the 85v switch mode PSU in the ECU does drop quite quickly when battery voltage is low, so am not too worried about that at the moment.” As Simon says I'm getting around 3.8 bar. Now I've got the NNN ecu I'll do the purge process a few times and get someone to squirt in some easy start. To my knowledge TD5s don't really like easy start. Everytime I've tried the whole electrical system goes AWOL. Like the battery loses all its power and fuel gauge needle goes all over the place. Engine chokes badly. However Tdis seem to get on with easy start. I've seen those shims but unsure if it will make any difference. I might as well get one being on a fiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 He says brake cleaner... Not likely to affect the sensors ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, V8 Freak said: Received this from Simon... “OK here we go.. She's been run dry, injectors out and been stood. Confirm the fuel pressure at the FPR where the temperature sensor sits. This is ideally 4 bar but 3.8 bar is adequate and make sure she holds that steady. I appreciate after faffing about it was holding at 1.5 bar however this could be for various reasons. If this is all good: Bleed her up using the bleed sequence (5 times on the pedal - which works for bot MSB and NNN by the way). Do this 3 - 4 times. Then... 2 man job. Give it a good snort of brake cleaner up the MAF whilst cranking her over. Start cranking first then start spraying up the MAF. May take a few seconds to start spluttering into life, then she should go. 10p engines are notorious to bleed up after running out of fuel. I also notice that the Crank sensor has been changed. If it starts throwing up errors it may need a shim under it. They are available form LR for less than £5. Even so it should still run. The injector peak charge short may well be down to trying to start with a low voltage battery as the 85v switch mode PSU in the ECU does drop quite quickly when battery voltage is low, so am not too worried about that at the moment.” That is a very unkind way to start that engine,far better to tow start it, giving all the power to the ecu and fuel pump,plus the engine will be spinning far faster than the starter ever could.EMF spikes from the starter are also avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Right so some very good news. The td5 is all up and running, happy days. Thanks V8 Freak it turned out to be my new Crank sensor was faulty. I removed it and fitted it to my mates td5 and guess what, his engine wouldn't start. Also Ally V8 you were right about my original ecu with those short peak charges- ecu was broke. Why on earth didn't my nanocom pick up the crank sensor issue from day one? Maybe because my old ecu was broke, nanocom couldn't pick up the crank signal issue. And I thought all along it was fuel issue and hacked out an access panel for a new fuel pump, new fpr, new seals and washers. Thanks for the map too V8 Freak. What a massive relief. Thanks to everyone who helped and gave me good advice. Really appreciate it. All the best Yannick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Well that is good news. I will pass along the feedback to Simon as he provided the map. Good to know it’s alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yan46 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 56 minutes ago, V8 Freak said: Well that is good news. I will pass along the feedback to Simon as he provided the map. Good to know it’s alive. Thanks once again. Massive relief as I'm moving to my new house next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Good to hear its running.I think the reason you didn't get a faulty crank sensor type fault is because the engine ecu might not be able to log faults during cranking. Its not doing much in the way of anything except concentrating on getting the engine away from the starter motor.Once past say 500rpm it will start to look for airflow and boost sensor readings etc.In my experience when the starter motor sends nasty spikes back up the crank sensor wires all that happens is the engine fails to start,there are no codes logged.Seen it many times and I use an oscilloscope to prove it.Nice because I can make money from the diagnosis and replacing the starter.Apart from on the last one I did about 2 months ago... My own car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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