Fatboy Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Morning all, I was under the impression that the running gear on the wagon I bought in reasonable nick. However, I've found a few issues on the axles etc (bodged stripped threads, glued studs, missing lock nuts, poorly fitted seals) which make me think slightly differently. As the axles are now refurb'd and mounted on the replacement chassis, I'm turning my attention to the bits that will make 'em spin! (Gearbox & then Engine) Yesterday, I got the gearbox on the bench and I'd like more confidence that its a good 'un before I bolt it in.. First impressions: Still had oil in it, approximately the right colour. Oil leaking from front and back output seals. Shaft on transfer box was sticking out 3/4" and free to move. (lock tab missing). Hi 4x4 selector does not seem to work - just goes up and down (lo 4x4 is fine). Clutch rod seized. I've got replacement seals for the handbrake, thats not a big deal. I assumed I would be able to get main box to transfer box seals and new output flanges etc from Ashcrofts but they can't help. Any ideas? I can also remember having problems getting a strong enough pin for the clutch rod where it enters the bellhousing a few years ago for my Series 1, does anybody know of a stockist for these? In general, there does not seem to be any rough feeling when rotating the varous shafts although there is a bit of play, what should I specifically look for and what do I need to strip to sort the High 4x4 actuator? Any help or tips, much appreicated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 it's a little difficult to ascertain the condition of a series 2a gearbox without actually dismantling it. You can't see if the 3rd/4th synchro hub is worn out, or whetheror not the 2nd/3rd mainshaft gear distance sleeve has broken. (It probably has) !st layshaft gear will probably need replacing as will all bearings. Strip her down, take photos if you are unsure what to look for and we'll take a look. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted December 19, 2007 Author Share Posted December 19, 2007 Strip her down, take photos if you are unsure what to look for and we'll take a look.Bill. Ok Bill, Thanks for the advice... I'll clear some space by assembling other items then get to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 After a few hours of stripping and cleaning, I now have this arrangement of parts: When I removed the bellhousing, I found pieces of detent springs... so they are first on the "new" list. There were also some pieces of metal which joined to form a ring, I assume this is the mainshaft distance sleeve that Bill referred to. The remnants were a bit rounded on the broken corners so its been bust for some time. The little piece near the detent springs looks like it has come off the spring ring fixing for t2nd and 3rd mainshaft gears. (The biro was added for scale, it wasn't in the box : The 1st Speed Mainshaft Gear also looks a bit worn.... In addition to these, the shaft for the intermediate gear had a bit of damage and the locating groove in the end is broken so that also needs replaced I also suspect that the High Gear in the Transfer Box needs replaced as the little teeth on its smaller diameter are looking a bit sharp (Opinions welcome?) I can feel a fair bit of play if I hold the mainshaft gear for the transfer box and try to rotate the mainshaft - New mainshaft or mainshaft and gear? Bearings all feel fine but I imagine it would be sensible / good practice to replace them along with all of the seals... Opinions are more than welcome... I plan to do the various checks mentioned in the bit of manual I have and compile the "new" parts list - Craddocks seems to be the best source but I also found an advert for Legs so may try them for advice. Thanks for any replies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 After a few hours of stripping and cleaning, I now have this arrangement of parts: When I removed the bellhousing, I found pieces of detent springs... so they are first on the "new" list. There were also some pieces of metal which joined to form a ring, I assume this is the mainshaft distance sleeve that Bill referred to. The remnants were a bit rounded on the broken corners so its been bust for some time. The little piece near the detent springs looks like it has come off the spring ring fixing for t2nd and 3rd mainshaft gears. (The biro was added for scale, it wasn't in the box : The 1st Speed Mainshaft Gear also looks a bit worn.... In addition to these, the shaft for the intermediate gear had a bit of damage and the locating groove in the end is broken so that also needs replaced I also suspect that the High Gear in the Transfer Box needs replaced as the little teeth on its smaller diameter are looking a bit sharp (Opinions welcome?) I can feel a fair bit of play if I hold the mainshaft gear for the transfer box and try to rotate the mainshaft - New mainshaft or mainshaft and gear? Bearings all feel fine but I imagine it would be sensible / good practice to replace them along with all of the seals... Opinions are more than welcome... I plan to do the various checks mentioned in the bit of manual I have and compile the "new" parts list - Craddocks seems to be the best source but I also found an advert for Legs so may try them for advice. Thanks for any replies... The ring thats in peices was the snap ring that held 2nd/3rd in place on the mainshaft, only use genuine for this part. !st gear, transfer idler spindle and Hi gear are all scrap, also look at the mating dog teeth on the Lo gear cos they are probably bad as well. All new bearings and seals. The distance sleeve that Bill is referring to is the bronze bush with a collar in the middle that 2nd & 3rd run on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 The ring thats in peices was the snap ring that held 2nd/3rd in place on the mainshaft, only use genuine for this part. Oddly... that ring is still in place although it has a bit chipped of it. (lying beside the broken detent spring). I'm now baffled about where the broken bits came from..... The distance sleeve that Bill is referring to is the bronze bush with a collar in the middle that 2nd & 3rd run on. Ahh.. gotcha. I need to dis-assemble that area to get to the distance sleeve... Also checked the mainshaft splines and the mainshaft gear for the transfer box - both goosed For Sourcing Bits: I sent a note to Legs at lunchtime and got a reply in less than 5 minutes with the prices I'd asked for.. I then asked a couple of questions and got replies in a similar timeframe so they are looking very promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 After a few hours of stripping and cleaning, I now have this arrangement of parts: When I removed the bellhousing, I found pieces of detent springs... so they are first on the "new" list. There were also some pieces of metal which joined to form a ring, I assume this is the mainshaft distance sleeve that Bill referred to. The remnants were a bit rounded on the broken corners so its been bust for some time. The little piece near the detent springs looks like it has come off the spring ring fixing for t2nd and 3rd mainshaft gears. (The biro was added for scale, it wasn't in the box : The 1st Speed Mainshaft Gear also looks a bit worn.... In addition to these, the shaft for the intermediate gear had a bit of damage and the locating groove in the end is broken so that also needs replaced I also suspect that the High Gear in the Transfer Box needs replaced as the little teeth on its smaller diameter are looking a bit sharp (Opinions welcome?) I can feel a fair bit of play if I hold the mainshaft gear for the transfer box and try to rotate the mainshaft - New mainshaft or mainshaft and gear? Bearings all feel fine but I imagine it would be sensible / good practice to replace them along with all of the seals... Opinions are more than welcome... I plan to do the various checks mentioned in the bit of manual I have and compile the "new" parts list - Craddocks seems to be the best source but I also found an advert for Legs so may try them for advice. Thanks for any replies... Sorry for the delay in posting. I haven't checked the seriesforum for a while. The broken segmented ring appears to be from the layshaft to prevent 2nd and 3rd gears from sliding off the splines and up against 1st gear . This ring is a 2 piece affair that resides in an annular groove about 2/3rds distance on the layshaft and fits inside a machined recess in the back of 2nd gear.Laterseries2 a layshafts don't have the ring or annular groove. The shaft has an integral shoulder and requires a different 2nd gear without the machined recess. The intermediate gear shaft is shot as you and Phil have already pointed out. 1st mainshaft gear doesn't look too bad but the layshaft gear is probably badly worn so it may be worth fitting a new pair of gears. The transfercase high range gear appears to have badly tapered dog teeth and the low range sliding gear will show similar wear on the internal teeth/splines. Replace as a set. Remember when reassembling to fit the 3rd/4th synchro hub the correct way round. The machined recess on the internal splines go towards 3rd gear. If your Bronze distance sleeve is broken and the new replacement is a 2 piece affair you should stake the outer sleeve into one of the splines on the mainshaft to prevent it from spinning and expanding on the shaft in service. Once you have staked the sleeve, dress the area with a file so that 3rd gear doesn't snag on the staked area. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Gents, Many thanks for the pointers and tips.... much appreciated. I'll finish stripping it later and compile the parts list. For info (if anyone else is following this): I think all up, the rebuild of the box with all new seals, bearings, worn gears and shafts as discussed above is going to cost about £250. I'll clarify that though once it is all confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 Voila! All bearings, seals, gaskets and a number of gears & couple of shafts replaced. Obviously the proof of the pudding is only going to be known once its hooked up to an engine and provides motion.... It was fun to do, manual crucial for diagrams and tolerances. All the bits that Bill said would be broke, were B) . For me, the service from LEGS was excellent with a number of packages arriving the day after I'd ordered the bits. Thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Possibly while Bill is still around, what's your opinion on installing breathers into the box and transfer case, to minimise the pressure on the output shaft seals? Fatboy, As a matter of interest, did LEGS supply leather or plastic seals for the output shafts? I have no views as to which is best, but some vote one way, some the other. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Possibly while Bill is still around, what's your opinion on installing breathers into the box and transfer case, to minimise the pressure on the output shaft sealCheers. The gearbox and transfercase do have rudimentary breathers that could be improved on if any deep wading is envisaged. The transfercase breathes through a small hole in a rectangular metal plate on the rear of the main gearbox top lid. The main gearbox breathes through a small hole in a round steel disc on the middle of the gearbox top lid. Earlier 2a, 2 and series 1 main gearboxes unfortunately do not have sealed input shafts, only a scrolled oil slinger machined on to the input shaft to keep the oil in while the engine is running.This also acts like an Archimedes screw pump to fill the gearbox up with water if you go wading with perished rubber bell housing grommets or without the drain plug fitted. Bill.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 this is a pic of breathers on a series transmission when i used to run it, all fittings are 1/8 bsp to 6mm nylon tubing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted February 16, 2008 Author Share Posted February 16, 2008 The LEGS seals were plastic but seemed to be of good quality. Quite a few of the parts were in genuine bags. With regards to breathers, I did ensure mine were clear. The round tin "core plug" towards the front had been slightly modified with a screwdriver by previous owner but its okay. I've got the fittings for putting pipes but figure the rectangular plate can be removed and modded easy enough later in the build. I'd also realised the weakeness of the input shaft with the screw and will be putting extra effort into sealing the two holes and bellhousing. I want to put a rubber sleeve (maybe hose) over the pivot pins on the clutch actuating rod because I've seen them break in the middle but still do their job effectively and bolts / roll pins didn't cut the mustard. The rubber hose will at least keep the two pieces in place. I'll then try and seal the hose to the bung / hole (Need a bit of thought yet) Ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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