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Megasquirt - The Advanced Thread -For ADVANCED Discussions


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Things to consider:

- Cranking pulsewidths, esp. on larger capcaity engines, can be quite long. I'm sure I've had to increase mine at least once.

- After-start enrichment (ASE) which is applied for the first ~250 engine cycles after cranking may also help bring it to life rather than just increasing the warmup value.

- There is also a "first start" enrichment that can be applied although I don't know of any RV8 currently using it.

- When you say "40%" enrichment I assume you mean 140% is the value in the warmup table, as 100% is zero enrichment, 140% is plus 40% and a value of 40% would actually be -60% from "normal" (I.E warmed up) value.

- cranking is fine - the engine starts within 0.5-1 sec in these temps

- ASE (after start enrichment) is 40% on top of Warm up enrichment (which is also cca 40%) in these ambient temps (cca 10degC) - so I am adding 80% more fuel after cranking is finshed and the engine starts to run - ASE goes away within couple of second - then only the WUE stays in play.

- no first start enrichmenr on MSII/Extra

I've made an improvement by actually having the IAC stepper closed half-way during cranking (not fully open). Tuning this is a pain in the ... as I have only one attempt a day.... Today I will set the IAC back to fully open during cranking but add significant % to cranking and ASE - to see how it behaves....

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Evo,

you run MS2x too and as you know, my msq resembles yours :) (thanks for that), although I have made lots of adjustments meanwhile. Anyway. I have a 4.2l block. The cranking pulses seem to be sensitive. MS2x does no longe have "absolute" cranking pulse widths, but a percentage of the ReqFuel. Looks like 5% are cosiderable "steps" to change. The cranking settings I took over from you are quite well / close. Haven´t really touched them.

Today I´ve got the best cold start of 10°C ever. First time that the engine would not stall after cranking and it only had a very slight hestitation after shifting into "D" and taking off. So I think I am getting closer now.

I will have to look up the values, but I think I underestimated them when I posted last time. The WUE is about 140% I think, but ASE is somewhere between 60-70%. The ASE taper is around 400. That sounds weird but the relatively low ReqF of 12.0 and low VE´s of 55 at idle may explain that.

As said I am heavily backing up a weak WUE by massive increase of ASE. Today it appeared to work. It took me 2months to get here and not yet "arrived".

To be honest I don´t like these big ASE figures as they differ massively from the defaults (and the tables for the ASE taper are not designed for such high numbers, the bins will accept them and burn them to MS, but the graph of the table stops to show anything higher than 400 or so).

Well, if it really works like I only need to keep the engine so much rich for up to 500 cycles and have a rather moderate WUE with less fuel washing off oil from the cylinders I think it would be a benefit (so my theory), IOW if working with high WUE there would be some waste of fuel.

BTW - the O2 sensor is said to not read reliable for the first minute(s) which certainly is true. OTOH the readings I get after MT activates the gauge seem logical and "fit" the feeling the engine gives - i.e. lean readings spell for hestitation just as much as with a warm engine.

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I'm doing a non LR MS2 Extra install and the layout of engine/bulkhead/wiring etc make me want to install the EDIS8 module on the engine. I would fit it on the end of an air filter housing on top of the plenum.

My only concern is vibration. The whole of the engine bay gets pretty hot so nowhere else will be cooler.

Your thoughts gents?

Steve

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0.510 is richer, but only a tiny amount in reality.

John,

Could you give the reason behind using this value rather than the 'stoich' value of 0.454 (pretty sure that's what it is).

I understand it will run richer, just interested in the choice of value.... worried about running lean for instance.... or more power...?

Thanks :)

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It's just a little bit (and it's a very tiny amount) on the rich side, primarily to avoid running lean because of the theory about lean running & liner slip on the larger V8's. TBH it's such a small difference I doubt it really changes anything.

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0.510 is richer, but only a tiny amount in reality

can you decide about rich or lean in a "narrow band" of voltage, in terms of measuring an AFR of, say, 14.0<>15.0 with a Narrowband sensor with the difference of a Widebandsensor of being able to measure 12.0-18.0 or sth. ?

Well, I´m mixed up a litte. Always thought that a Narrowband sensor only stays at 0.5V when the mixture is exactly 14.7:1 and, if the mixture gets any richer it jumps to 1.0V and if it gets any leaner it jumps to 0.0V. But I cannot tell from real life as I have a WB and that´s the only thing I could talk about

But from what I´ve read in the MegaManual it looks like you can only tell that your´re richer than 14.7:1 - but not by how much ???

I try to collect what brought me to that conclusion (in order to be put right !)

wbvolts.gif

from this pic it looks like from 0.15V up to 0.8-0.9V(dependent on EGT ?) you are stoich. And if there is a small curve of the transition to 1.0V and to 0.0V then that´s because there is no "rectangular" behaviour in real world and the xyz(whatever´s in the sond) needs some time to let electrodes flow - but to this effect rather than a relation of AFR.

text copied from :

The Wide Band Advantage http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mwire.htm#ego

With a narrow band sensor, we can really only tell for certain whether we are rich or lean, but not by how much. If you look at the graph, you can see that for a narrow band sensor, the 12.5:1 AFR required for maximum power can give O2 voltage from 0.8 to 0.95 (depending on exhaust gas temperature), yet this same range of O2 voltages can indicate mixtures from 10:1 to 14.5:1. So we cannot use it reliably to set mixtures for full power. With a wide-band sensor, 12.5:1 corresponds to 2.08 volts, and 2.08 volts means 12.5:1. Thus there is no ambiguity over AFR and voltages. We can measure any mixture in the range we are likely to use, from full power through to maximum economy. MegaSquirt does not currently have the capability to fully exploit a wide-band sensor by incorporating full time, all conditions closed loop feedback for fueling. MegaTune has an 'autotune' feature which allows wide-band mixture target settings with real-time updating of the VE table (For the MegaSquirt-II™ EFI controller).

?:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can someone post a "tuned" advance table for a stock 3.9 with Automatic gearbox? I've seen the tables posted here but they are either for the bigger engines or it is the "popular defaults" which seem to be a little too conservative :)

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Can someone post a "tuned" advance table for a stock 3.9 with Automatic gearbox? I've seen the tables posted here but they are either for the bigger engines or it is the "popular defaults" which seem to be a little too conservative :)

As I run........... 3.9+ with zf4hp22 autogearbox tuned with my lc1

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<msq xmlns="http://www.msefi.com/:msq">
  <bibliography author="MegaTune 2.25" writeDate="2007-03-17T18:42:56+00:00" />
  <versionInfo fileFormat="4.0" nPages="9" signature="MSnS-extra format 029q *********" />
  <page number="0" size="189">
     <constant name="algorithm1">"Speed Density"</constant>
     <constant name="alternate1">"Alternating"</constant>
     <constant name="baroCorr1">"On"</constant>
     <constant name="battFac1" units="ms/v">0.10</constant>
     <constant name="cltType1">"Unknown3"</constant>
     <constant name="divider1">2</constant>
     <constant name="egoCount1">37</constant>
     <constant name="egoDelta1" units="%">0</constant>
     <constant name="egoIgnCount">"Ign Pulses*^"</constant>
     <constant name="egoLimit1" units="%">10</constant>
     <constant name="egoRPM1" units="RPM">1300</constant>
     <constant name="egoSwitch1" units="v">0.510</constant>
     <constant name="egoTemp1" units="C">71</constant>
     <constant name="egoType1">"Narrow band"</constant>
     <constant name="engineType1">"Even fire"</constant>
     <constant name="fastIdleT1" units="C">68.8</constant>
     <constant name="injOpen1" units="ms">1.0</constant>
     <constant name="injPwmP1" units="%">100</constant>
     <constant name="injPwmT1" units="ms">25.5</constant>
     <constant name="mapBins1" rows="12" units="kPa">
        15
        20
        30
        40
        50
        60
        70
        80
        85
        90
        95
        100
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapSensor1">"1"</constant>
     <constant name="mapType1">"250 kPa"</constant>
     <constant name="matType1">"Unknown3"</constant>
     <constant name="nCylinders1">"8"</constant>
     <constant name="nInjectors1">"8"</constant>
     <constant name="reqFuel1" units="ms">11.0</constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins1" rows="12" units="RPM">
        600
        1000
        1500
        2000
        2500
        3000
        3500
        4000
        4500
        5000
        5400
        5800
     </constant>
     <constant name="rpmk1">1500</constant>
     <constant name="twoStroke1">"Four-stroke"</constant>
     <constant cols="12" name="veBins1" rows="12" units="%">
        44 42 46 46 42 42 42 50 52 53 56 56
        44 45 46 47 49 49 50 56 60 60 60 60
        42 42 46 53 56 56 59 65 65 65 66 68
        42 45 48 55 58 62 70 74 74 74 74 74
        48 48 53 57 64 66 72 78 78 78 78 78
        51 54 56 57 66 70 76 78 80 80 80 80
        58 59 59 62 69 74 78 79 80 80 80 80
        63 65 66 64 69 74 76 79 80 80 80 80
        67 70 68 67 71 75 76 78 80 80 80 80
        71 72 73 70 73 75 76 78 80 80 80 80
        71 72 73 71 74 75 76 78 80 80 80 80
        71 72 73 71 75 76 76 79 80 80 81 81
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="1" size="189">
     <constant name="TwoLambda">"None*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="algorithm2">"Speed Density"</constant>
     <constant name="alternate2">"Alternating"</constant>
     <constant name="baroCorr2">"On"</constant>
     <constant name="battFac2" units="ms/v">0.10</constant>
     <constant name="cltType2">"Unknown2"</constant>
     <constant name="divider2">2</constant>
     <constant name="egoDelta2" units="%">1</constant>
     <constant name="egoLimit2" units="%">5</constant>
     <constant name="egoRPM2" units="RPM">1200</constant>
     <constant name="egoSwitch2" units="v">2.509</constant>
     <constant name="egoTemp2" units="C">71</constant>
     <constant name="egoType2">"Wide band"</constant>
     <constant name="engineType2">"Even fire"</constant>
     <constant name="fastIdleT2" units="C">71.0</constant>
     <constant name="injOpen2" units="ms">1.0</constant>
     <constant name="injPwmP2" units="%">100</constant>
     <constant name="injPwmT2" units="ms">25.5</constant>
     <constant name="mapBins2" rows="12" units="kPa">
        25
        35
        45
        58
        80
        100
        112
        125
        137
        150
        160
        170
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapType2">"250 kPa"</constant>
     <constant name="matType2">"Unknown2"</constant>
     <constant name="nCylinders2">"8"</constant>
     <constant name="nInjectors2">"8"</constant>
     <constant name="primePulse2" units="ms">1.2</constant>
     <constant name="reqFuel2" units="ms">5.4</constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins2" rows="12" units="RPM">
        1000
        1200
        1500
        2100
        2800
        3000
        3500
        4000
        4500
        5100
        5800
        6000
     </constant>
     <constant name="rpmk2">1500</constant>
     <constant name="twoStroke2">"Four-stroke"</constant>
     <constant cols="12" name="veBins2" rows="12" units="%">
        50 48 44 45 20 20 20 20 20 20 35 60
        50 48 44 45 34 34 34 34 34 34 60 60
        46 49 46 45 50 53 61 62 63 71 71 71
        51 52 59 57 60 66 71 72 73 74 74 74
        61 68 69 70 71 72 75 77 78 86 86 86
        78 79 81 82 82 83 88 89 89 89 89 89
        85 94 96 98 99 99 107 108 109 109 109 109
        85 94 96 100 103 107 114 116 117 117 117 117
        85 94 96 101 104 107 118 120 121 121 121 121
        85 94 96 103 106 109 118 121 123 123 123 123
        85 94 96 105 108 111 119 122 125 125 125 125
        85 94 96 105 108 115 119 126 129 129 129 129
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="2" size="189">
     <constant name="CrankAng" units="Deg">10</constant>
     <constant name="FixAng" units="Deg">-10</constant>
     <constant name="IdleAdv" units="Deg">-10</constant>
     <constant name="IdleAdvCLT" units="C">-40.0</constant>
     <constant name="IdleAdvRPM" units="RPM">500</constant>
     <constant name="IdleAdvTPS" units="ADC">0</constant>
     <constant name="IdleDelayTime" units="sec">1</constant>
     <constant name="IgHold">0</constant>
     <constant name="IgInv">"Yes"</constant>
     <constant name="Stg2ndParmDlt" units="kPa">0</constant>
     <constant name="Stg2ndParmKPA" units="kPa">0</constant>
     <constant name="StgCycles" units="cycles">25</constant>
     <constant name="TrigAng" units="Deg">60</constant>
     <constant name="TrigCrank">"Time Based"</constant>
     <constant name="Trig_plus">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="Trim" units="Deg">0</constant>
     <constant cols="12" name="advTable1" rows="12" units="deg">
        8 8 13 21 25 27 29 33 37 37 41 41
        8 8 13 21 24 27 29 33 37 37 41 41
        8 8 13 21 24 26 29 33 37 37 39 39
        8 8 12 20 24 26 29 32 37 37 38 39
        8 8 12 20 23 26 29 32 36 37 39 39
        8 8 12 19 23 26 29 31 36 36 38 39
        8 8 11 19 22 25 29 31 36 36 37 39
        8 8 11 18 22 25 28 31 35 35 37 37
        9 9 11 18 21 25 28 30 35 35 37 37
        9 9 11 17 20 24 28 30 32 32 32 32
        8 8 11 17 20 24 27 30 32 32 32 32
        8 8 10 17 20 24 27 30 32 32 32 32
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapBins3" rows="12" units="kPa">
        20
        25
        30
        35
        40
        45
        50
        55
        60
        70
        80
        100
     </constant>
     <constant name="oddfire">"No"</constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins3" rows="12" units="RPM">
        500
        800
        1000
        1200
        1500
        2000
        2200
        2500
        3000
        4200
        5000
        6000
     </constant>
     <constant name="spare3_182">150</constant>
     <constant name="spare3_183">140</constant>
     <constant name="spare3_184">130</constant>
  </page>
  <page number="3" size="189">
     <constant name="AFMUse">"No AFM *^"</constant>
     <constant name="AccDecEnrich">"TPSdot*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="AccelMapASE">"Normal*^"</constant>
     <constant name="AfrTar">"Off*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="AfrTar2">"Off*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="AirCorAFM">"Use IAT"</constant>
     <constant name="AlphBaroCor">"No"</constant>
     <constant name="BarroHi" units="KPa">105</constant>
     <constant name="BarroLow" units="KPa">90</constant>
     <constant name="BooTbl2Use">"Targets 2"</constant>
     <constant name="BoostDir">"Increase boost"</constant>
     <constant name="BoostMaxKn" units="KPa">0</constant>
     <constant name="CltAdv">"On"</constant>
     <constant name="ConsBarCor">"Not Fitted*^"</constant>
     <constant name="DecayAcPoint" units="mS">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="DecayAccel">"Decay"</constant>
     <constant name="DecelBoost">"Above KPa Setpoint"</constant>
     <constant name="DecelKPa" units="kPa">75</constant>
     <constant name="DtNos">"Bank1"</constant>
     <constant name="EgoLim2" units="+-">5</constant>
     <constant name="EgoLimKPa" units="KPa">90</constant>
     <constant name="HCutLCSpark" units="Sparks">3</constant>
     <constant name="HCutLCType">"Fuel Only"</constant>
     <constant name="HCutSpark" units="Sparks">3</constant>
     <constant name="HCutType">"Spark Cut Only"</constant>
     <constant name="HardRevLim" units="rpm">6300</constant>
     <constant name="IATBoost" units="C">141.5</constant>
     <constant name="IATBoostSt" units="C">99.9</constant>
     <constant name="IStagedMode">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="IatAdvKpa" units="KPa">80</constant>
     <constant name="IgAdvDeg" units="C">10.0</constant>
     <constant name="IgAdvTemp" units="C">54.9</constant>
     <constant name="IgRetDeg" units="C">10.0</constant>
     <constant name="IgRetTemp" units="C">45.0</constant>
     <constant name="InvOut1">"Normal"</constant>
     <constant name="InvOut2">"Normal"</constant>
     <constant name="KPaDotBoost">"Never"</constant>
     <constant name="KPaOn" units="KPa">85</constant>
     <constant name="KPaTarg10" units="KPa">6</constant>
     <constant name="KPaTarg100" units="KPa">33</constant>
     <constant name="KPaTarg40" units="KPa">15</constant>
     <constant name="KPaTarg60" units="KPa">24</constant>
     <constant name="KnockAdv" units="Deg">1</constant>
     <constant name="KnockBoost" units="KPa">0</constant>
     <constant name="KnockKpa" units="KPa">100</constant>
     <constant name="KnockMax" units="Deg">3</constant>
     <constant name="KnockOn">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="KnockRet" units="Deg">2</constant>
     <constant name="KnockRpm" units="RPM">5700</constant>
     <constant name="KnockRpmL" units="RPM">2000</constant>
     <constant name="KnockSb" units="Deg">1</constant>
     <constant name="KnockTim" units="Sec">1</constant>
     <constant name="KpaTPSTar">"Speed Density"</constant>
     <constant name="LC_f_limangle" units="Deg">-10</constant>
     <constant name="LC_f_slim" units="RPM">25500</constant>
     <constant name="LC_flatlim" units="RPM">19000</constant>
     <constant name="LC_flatsel" units="RPM">25500</constant>
     <constant name="LachDeg" units="Deg">5</constant>
     <constant name="LachRpm" units="RPM">1900</constant>
     <constant name="LachTps" units="Raw ADC">30</constant>
     <constant name="LaunchLim" units="rpm">2200</constant>
     <constant name="MaxIatAdv" units="Deg">3.2</constant>
     <constant name="N2Odel_flat" units="s">2.55</constant>
     <constant name="N2Odel_launch" units="s">2.51</constant>
     <constant name="N2Oholdon" units="s">2.55</constant>
     <constant name="NosAngle" units="Deg">18</constant>
     <constant name="NosClt" units="C">48.8</constant>
     <constant name="NosHiKpa" units="KPa">120</constant>
     <constant name="NosLagSystem">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="NosLowKpa" units="KPa">80</constant>
     <constant name="NosPWHi" units="mSec">0.3</constant>
     <constant name="NosPWLo" units="mSec">1.2</constant>
     <constant name="NosRpm" units="RPM">3000</constant>
     <constant name="NosRpmMax" units="RPM">6000</constant>
     <constant name="NosTps" units="Raw">200</constant>
     <constant name="OLoopEgo">"KPa"</constant>
     <constant name="Out1UpLim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">0</constant>
     <constant name="Out2UpLim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">0</constant>
     <constant name="Out3_Out1">"Source"</constant>
     <constant name="OvrBCutType">"Spark Cut Only"</constant>
     <constant name="OvrBKpa" units="KPa">200</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunC">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunClt" units="C">71</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunKpa" units="KPa">20</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunRpm" units="RPM">1300</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunTimr" units="Sec">2</constant>
     <constant name="OvrRunTps" units="Raw ADC">21</constant>
     <constant name="Pambient" units="kPa">100</constant>
     <constant name="RPM1S" units="3000RPM/Sec or 5%Slip">10.0</constant>
     <constant name="RPM2S" units="4000RPM/Sec or 15%Slip">12.0</constant>
     <constant name="RPM3S" units="6000RPM/Sec or 30%Slip">13.0</constant>
     <constant name="RPM4S" units="10000RPM/Sec or 70%Slip ">15.0</constant>
     <constant name="RPMAE1" units="RPM">4400</constant>
     <constant name="RPMAE2" units="RPM">3500</constant>
     <constant name="RPMAE3" units="RPM">200</constant>
     <constant name="RPMAE4" units="RPM">800</constant>
     <constant name="RPMBAsedAE">"Normal AE*^"</constant>
     <constant name="RPMThresh" units="RPM/Sec">3000</constant>
     <constant name="RPMmS1" units="mS">1.4</constant>
     <constant name="RPMmS2" units="mS">1.0</constant>
     <constant name="RPMmS3" units="mS">0.7</constant>
     <constant name="RPMmS4" units="mS">0.1</constant>
     <constant name="ST2Delay" units="Sec">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="STTable2On">"Spark Table1^"</constant>
     <constant name="ScaleFac">255</constant>
     <constant name="ShiftLower" units="rpm">5200</constant>
     <constant name="ShiftUpper" units="rpm">5600</constant>
     <constant name="SoftLimMax" units="s">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="SoftLimRetard" units="deg">15</constant>
     <constant name="SoftRevLim" units="rpm">6200</constant>
     <constant name="SparkCutBNum" units="Sparks">3</constant>
     <constant name="SparkCutBase" units="Sparks">10</constant>
     <constant name="StagedAnd">"One condition"</constant>
     <constant name="StagedMAP2nd">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="StartWIKPa" units="KPa">115</constant>
     <constant name="StgDelta">3</constant>
     <constant name="StgTrans">25</constant>
     <constant name="TPSAFRPoint" units="Raw ADC">255</constant>
     <constant name="TPSBooIAT" units="Raw ADC">255</constant>
     <constant name="TPSRPMTarg">"RPM"</constant>
     <constant name="TPSTar">"Always"</constant>
     <constant name="TargetB1" units="Raw Value">1</constant>
     <constant name="TargetB2" units="Raw Value">10</constant>
     <constant name="TargetB3" units="Raw Value">19</constant>
     <constant name="TargetB4" units="Raw Value">28</constant>
     <constant name="TpsOn" units="Raw">0</constant>
     <constant name="TractCySec">"Cycle count only"</constant>
     <constant name="TractCyc1" units="3000RPM/Sec or 5%Slip">1</constant>
     <constant name="TractCyc2" units="4000RPM/Sec or 15%Slip">2</constant>
     <constant name="TractCyc3" units="6000RPM/Sec or 30%Slip">4</constant>
     <constant name="TractCyc4" units="10000RPM/Sec or 70%Slip">4</constant>
     <constant name="TractMode">"Vehicle Speed Sensors"</constant>
     <constant name="TractNOS">"No"</constant>
     <constant name="TractRet1" units="3000RPM/Sec or 5%Slip">5</constant>
     <constant name="TractRet2" units="4000RPM/Sec or 15%Slip">10</constant>
     <constant name="TractRet3" units="6000RPM/Sec or 30%Slip">15</constant>
     <constant name="TractRet4" units="10000RPM/Sec or 70%Slip">18</constant>
     <constant name="TractSC1" units="3000RPM/Sec or 5%Slip">1</constant>
     <constant name="TractSC2" units="4000RPM/Sec or 15%Slip">1</constant>
     <constant name="TractSC3" units="6000RPM/Sec or 30%Slip">2</constant>
     <constant name="TractSC4" units="10000RPM/Sec or 70%Slip">2</constant>
     <constant name="TractScale" units="%">9</constant>
     <constant name="TractSlip" units="%">5</constant>
     <constant name="TractSlipH" units="%">2</constant>
     <constant name="TractVSSMax" units="V">5.00</constant>
     <constant name="TractVSSMin" units="V">5.00</constant>
     <constant name="TractionOn">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="UseVE3">"Dont switch*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="VE3Delay" units="Sec">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="VLaunch">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="WaterIIat" units="C">25.0</constant>
     <constant name="WaterIRpm" units="RPM">3000</constant>
     <constant name="WaterInj">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="bcUpdateRate" units="ms">20</constant>
     <constant name="bc_max_diff" units="kPa">255</constant>
     <constant name="boostUse">"Output1*^"</constant>
     <constant name="dGain" units="%">9.8</constant>
     <constant name="dualdizzy">"Normal"</constant>
     <constant name="dwellcont">"Dwell control"</constant>
     <constant name="dwellcrank" units="ms">5.5</constant>
     <constant name="dwellduty50">"50% duty cycle"</constant>
     <constant name="dwellrun" units="ms">3.6</constant>
     <constant name="edis">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="edismulti">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="edismultirpm" units="rpm">100</constant>
     <constant name="efanofftemp" units="C">83.8</constant>
     <constant name="efanontemp" units="C">88.2</constant>
     <constant name="falsetrig_dis">"Enabled*"</constant>
     <constant name="fidleUse">"Idle control*"</constant>
     <constant name="freqDiv">"39.0 Hz"</constant>
     <constant name="hei7">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="hybridAN">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="ignmode">4</constant>
     <constant name="inj1g">"on*^"</constant>
     <constant name="inj2cr">"On*^"</constant>
     <constant name="inj2g">"on*^"</constant>
     <constant name="inj2t">"1*^"</constant>
     <constant name="launchUse">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="led17Use">"Spark output A"</constant>
     <constant name="led18Use">"Spark output C"</constant>
     <constant name="led18_2Use">"1"</constant>
     <constant name="led19Use">"Spark output B"</constant>
     <constant name="maeBins4" rows="4" units="ms">
        0.2
        0.5
        1.1
        1.8
     </constant>
     <constant name="maeRates4" rows="4" units="ms">
        80
        150
        230
        320
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapProportion4">"TPSdot*^(DT)"</constant>
     <constant name="mapThresh4" units="kPa/s">50</constant>
     <constant name="mindischg" units="ms">0.1</constant>
     <constant name="miss2nd">"no missing"</constant>
     <constant name="msnsCyl">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="neonCrank">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="nitrousUse">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="numteeth">36</constant>
     <constant name="onetwo">"-1"</constant>
     <constant name="out1Hysis" units="raw byte or deg F">0</constant>
     <constant name="out1lim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">0</constant>
     <constant name="out1src">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="out2Hysis" units="raw byte or deg F">0</constant>
     <constant name="out2lim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">0</constant>
     <constant name="out2src">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="out3Timer" units="Sec">1.0</constant>
     <constant name="out3lim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">1</constant>
     <constant name="out3sparkd">"Spark output D"</constant>
     <constant name="out3src">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="out4FAN">"Source"</constant>
     <constant name="out4lim" units="raw byte or deg F +40">0</constant>
     <constant name="out4src">"Off*"</constant>
     <constant name="pGain" units="%">49.8</constant>
     <constant name="rotaryFDign">"FD Trailing"</constant>
     <constant name="shiftUse">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="spkeop">"Shiftlight"</constant>
     <constant name="spkfop">"Knock input"</constant>
     <constant name="tachconf">"X5 (JS3)"</constant>
     <constant name="tachconfdiv">"Normal"</constant>
     <constant name="taeBins4" rows="4" units="ms">
        0.2
        0.5
        0.8
        1.5
     </constant>
     <constant name="taeColdA4" units="ms">0.5</constant>
     <constant name="taeColdM4" units="%">105</constant>
     <constant name="taeIgnCount">"Sec*^"</constant>
     <constant name="taeRates4" rows="4" units="ms">
        1.0
        2.9
        5.1
        8.0
     </constant>
     <constant name="taeTime4" units="ms">0.3</constant>
     <constant name="tdePct4" units="%">75</constant>
     <constant name="tfi">"Off*^"</constant>
     <constant name="toy_dli">"Normal*"</constant>
     <constant name="tpsThresh4" units="v/s">0.586</constant>
     <constant name="trig1">1</constant>
     <constant name="trig1ret">6</constant>
     <constant name="trig2">10</constant>
     <constant name="trig2fall">"falling (like IRQ)"</constant>
     <constant name="trig2ret">15</constant>
     <constant name="trig3">19</constant>
     <constant name="trig3ret">24</constant>
     <constant name="trig4">28</constant>
     <constant name="trig4ret">33</constant>
     <constant name="trig5">0</constant>
     <constant name="trig5ret">0</constant>
     <constant name="trig6">0</constant>
     <constant name="trig6ret">0</constant>
     <constant name="wd_2trig">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="wheel_old">"025 style"</constant>
     <constant name="wheelon">"Generic wheel"</constant>
     <constant name="whlsim">"off"</constant>
     <constant name="whlsimcnt">4</constant>
     <constant name="x2use">"Fan control"</constant>
  </page>
  <page number="4" size="189">
     <constant cols="12" name="advTable2" rows="12" units="deg">
        8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
        8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
        9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
        10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
        12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12
        16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
        16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 16
        18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
        18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
        18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
        20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
        20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapBins4" rows="12" units="kPa">
        15
        20
        30
        40
        50
        60
        70
        80
        100
        120
        140
        160
     </constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins4" rows="12" units="RPM">
        500
        1000
        1200
        2000
        2800
        3500
        4000
        4500
        5000
        5500
        5800
        6000
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="5" size="189">
     <constant name="ASEFixDe">"Fixed then Decay"</constant>
     <constant name="ASEFixTemp" units="C">23.9</constant>
     <constant name="ASEFixTim">11</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable1" units="%">35</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable10" units="%">2</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable2" units="%">25</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable3" units="%">22</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable4" units="%">20</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable5" units="%">18</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable6" units="%">14</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable7" units="%">10</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable8" units="%">7</constant>
     <constant name="ASETable9" units="%">5</constant>
     <constant name="ASETime">17</constant>
     <constant name="VEFixASE">"Normal MAP *^"</constant>
     <constant name="VEFixValue" units="kpa">46</constant>
     <constant name="aseIgnCount">"Sec"</constant>
     <constant name="mapBins5" rows="12" units="kPa">
        20
        30
        35
        45
        50
        60
        65
        70
        80
        85
        95
        100
     </constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins5" rows="12" units="RPM">
        600
        1100
        1600
        2200
        2800
        3400
        4000
        4600
        5200
        5800
        6400
        7000
     </constant>
     <constant cols="12" name="veBins3" rows="12" units="%">
        22 28 32 37 40 43 44 45 44 42 41 40
        24 30 35 39 43 46 47 48 47 45 44 42
        25 31 36 41 45 47 49 49 48 47 45 44
        26 32 38 43 47 50 52 52 51 50 48 47
        27 33 39 45 49 52 53 54 53 51 50 48
        28 35 41 47 52 55 57 57 56 54 52 51
        29 36 42 48 53 56 58 59 58 56 54 52
        30 37 43 50 54 58 60 60 59 57 55 53
        32 39 46 52 57 61 63 63 62 60 58 56
        32 40 47 53 59 62 64 65 64 62 60 58
        34 42 49 56 61 65 67 68 67 65 62 60
        35 43 50 57 63 67 69 69 68 66 64 62
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="6" size="189">
     <constant name="Nos2Angle" units="Deg">26</constant>
     <constant name="Nos2PWHi" units="mSec">9.5</constant>
     <constant name="Nos2PWLo" units="mSec">8.5</constant>
     <constant name="Nos2Rpm" units="RPM">12500</constant>
     <constant name="Nos2RpmMax" units="RPM">15000</constant>
     <constant name="Nos2delay" units="s">0.60</constant>
     <constant cols="8" name="afrBins1" rows="8" units="Volts">
        2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57
        2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.37
        2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.27 2.27 2.16
        2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.27 2.16 2.16
        2.27 2.27 2.27 2.27 2.27 2.16 2.16 2.16
        2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16
        2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16
        2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16
     </constant>
     <constant cols="8" name="afrBins2" rows="8" units="Volts">
        2.96 2.96 2.67 2.76 2.76 2.76 2.76 2.76
        2.76 2.76 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57
        2.27 2.27 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57
        2.27 2.27 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.57 2.27
        2.27 2.27 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.06 2.16 2.16
        2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16 2.16
        2.16 2.16 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06
        2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06 2.06
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapBins6" rows="8" units="kPa">
        15
        25
        45
        60
        70
        80
        90
        100
     </constant>
     <constant name="mapBins7" rows="8" units="kPa">
        15
        30
        40
        60
        100
        120
        150
        160
     </constant>
     <constant name="outaoffs">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="outaoffv" units="deg">42.2</constant>
     <constant name="outboffs">"+45"</constant>
     <constant name="outboffv" units="deg">45.1</constant>
     <constant name="outcoffs">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="outcoffv" units="deg">45.1</constant>
     <constant name="outdoffs">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="outdoffv" units="deg">45.1</constant>
     <constant name="outeoffs">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="outeoffv" units="deg">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="outfoffs">"0"</constant>
     <constant name="outfoffv" units="deg">0.0</constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins6" rows="8" units="RPM">
        1200
        2500
        3000
        3500
        4000
        4500
        5000
        5800
     </constant>
     <constant name="rpmBins7" rows="8" units="RPM">
        1000
        1500
        2000
        2500
        3000
        4000
        5000
        6000
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="7" size="189">
     <constant cols="6" name="bcBins1" rows="6" units="kpa">
        20 20 20 20 20 20
        50 50 50 50 50 50
        80 80 80 80 80 80
        100 100 100 100 100 100
        130 130 130 130 130 130
        160 160 160 160 160 160
     </constant>
     <constant cols="6" name="bcBins2" rows="6" units="duty">
        4 4 4 4 4 4
        20 20 20 20 20 20
        31 31 31 31 31 31
        39 39 39 39 39 39
        39 39 39 39 39 39
        39 39 39 39 39 39
     </constant>
     <constant cols="6" name="bcBins3" rows="6" units="kpa">
        10 10 10 10 10 10
        20 20 20 20 20 20
        100 100 100 100 100 100
        120 120 120 120 120 120
        140 140 140 140 140 140
        160 160 160 160 160 160
     </constant>
     <constant name="bcrpmBins1" rows="6" units="RPM">
        500
        1000
        2000
        3000
        4500
        6000
     </constant>
     <constant name="bcrpmBins2" rows="6" units="RPM">
        1000
        2400
        3000
        4000
        5000
        6000
     </constant>
     <constant name="bcrpmBins3" rows="6" units="RPM">
        1000
        2000
        3000
        4000
        5000
        6000
     </constant>
     <constant name="bctpsBins1" rows="6" units="tps%">
        4
        20
        31
        39
        55
        63
     </constant>
     <constant name="bctpsBins2" rows="6" units="tps%">
        8
        24
        31
        39
        55
        63
     </constant>
     <constant name="bctpsBins3" rows="6" units="tps%">
        10
        20
        40
        60
        80
        100
     </constant>
  </page>
  <page number="8" size="189">
     <constant name="AlwaysPrime">"Always"</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT1" units="mS">10.0</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT10" units="mS">3.0</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT2" units="mS">8.8</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT3" units="mS">7.0</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT4" units="mS">6.0</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT5" units="mS">5.5</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT6" units="mS">5.2</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT7" units="mS">4.6</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT8" units="mS">4.2</constant>
     <constant name="CrankPWT9" units="mS">3.8</constant>
     <constant name="CrankRPM" units="rpm">300</constant>
     <constant name="ExFuelCrank">"On"</constant>
     <constant name="ExtraFMult" units="%">25</constant>
     <constant name="IATCTemp" rows="7" units="C">
        71
        75
        80
        85
        90
        95
        100
     </constant>
     <constant name="IATCor">"Normal Correction*^"</constant>
     <constant name="IATCorS" rows="7" units="%">
        100
        98
        96
        94
        92
        90
        88
     </constant>
     <constant name="IATCorTy">"IAT Corrected"</constant>
     <constant name="Idashdelay" units="x 0.01sec">0</constant>
     <constant name="Ideadbnd" units="+/- RPM">30</constant>
     <constant name="PrimeLate">"After 2 Secs"</constant>
     <constant name="PrimePulse" units="mS">2.0</constant>
     <constant name="PrimeTBox">"Standard Prime"</constant>
     <constant name="RPMRedHi" units="RPM">10000</constant>
     <constant name="RPMRedLo" units="RPM">10000</constant>
     <constant name="crankpwip">"CLT only*^"</constant>
     <constant name="fastIdleRPM" units="RPM">1100</constant>
     <constant name="fastIdleTemp" units="C">-8</constant>
     <constant name="fixedsplit" units="deg">-10</constant>
     <constant name="ictlrpm1" units="lo RPM">30</constant>
     <constant name="ictlrpm2" units="hi RPM">100</constant>
     <constant name="idlePeriod2" units="x 0.01sec">255</constant>
     <constant name="idleThresh" units="ADC">2</constant>
     <constant name="idle_dc_hi" units="dc">0</constant>
     <constant name="idle_dc_lo" units="dc">115</constant>
     <constant name="idleclosedc" units="dc">0</constant>
     <constant name="idlecrankdc" units="dc">50</constant>
     <constant name="idledashdc" units="dc">255</constant>
     <constant name="idledelayclock" units="x 0.01sec">1</constant>
     <constant name="idlefreq" units="10000/x = Frequency">255</constant>
     <constant name="idlemindc" units="dc">255</constant>
     <constant name="idleperiod" units="x 0.01sec">255</constant>
     <constant name="idlestartclk" units="x 0.01sec">10</constant>
     <constant name="irestorerpm" units="RPM">2460</constant>
     <constant name="pwmIdle">"PWM"</constant>
     <constant name="pwmidlewhen">"Warmup only"</constant>
     <constant name="rotary2">"Off"</constant>
     <constant name="slowIdleRPM" units="RPM">650</constant>
     <constant name="slowIdleTemp" units="C">75</constant>
     <constant cols="6" name="splitTable" rows="6" units="deg">
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
        -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10
     </constant>
     <constant name="splitkpaBins" rows="6" units="kpa">
        0
        0
        0
        0
        0
        0
     </constant>
     <constant name="splitrpmBins" rows="6" units="RPM">
        0
        0
        0
        0
        0
        0
     </constant>
     <constant name="tpsflood" units="raw">200</constant>
     <constant name="wueBins9" rows="10" units="%">
        180
        180
        160
        150
        135
        125
        113
        108
        102
        100
     </constant>
  </page>
</msq>

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As has been said there are quite a variety of spark maps around.

I could make a guess at what LR did originally with the mechanical and vac advance and try to copy it into a map but unless you use a rolling road I can't see any way to tune it.

Am I missing something?

Steve

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tuning advance without reliable knocke sensor, without roling-road - only on normal road - with an autogear box - is really above my capabilities :)

That is why I asked for a tuned map for a car with the same parameters - I will not copy paste - but just to see how the advance is progressing with increasing rpm and map.

istruggle2gate11 - thanks for the info. how was the advance map tuned? rolling road?

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istruggle2gate11 - thanks for the info. how was the advance map tuned? rolling road?

Mainly on the public highway with a wide band lamda - not really recomended on a busy road for your first run!!! - from plumes of black smoke to breakdowns [due to a reset and losing the msq file, fortunately i had a copy on the tuning laptop) in the middle of town!

It covered all the major sins, acceleration, cruise, run off, hills, deceleration, open road, town driving etc

Then

Rolling Roaded - very few adjustments

In my humble opinion, the rolling road was a bit of a waste of time with the auto box, it was getting difficult and scary to get the thing to hold fourth, we spent more time driving it to the gearbox rather than driving to tune.

Then

Two days in a quarry - a few tweaks, nothing major.

(one toughbook broken!!)

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Is anyone running the Bosch extra air valve with MSII extra 2.0.1?

If so can you let me know what settings you are running with it as I am unable to get mine going.

It will run and for a while can be run from the temperature table but then starts to jitter taking all the other things with it like all the gauges in MT start jumping about. Finally MS will lock up. If I simply unplug the valve all returns to normal.

It will do this both on the car or running it on the stim.

I have the flyback diode fitted but doubt this is the issue as it is fitted on the stim board when on the bench and in the car is fitted in the loom beside the valve so it is unlikely both diodes have failed. It will also do it with two different valves.

I've posted on the Extra forum but there does not appear to be any specific reason for this to happen. It seems like interference but the diode is supposed to fix that.

I think my next move is to go back to MSII basic and see if I still have the same problem.

Steve

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Found something interesting today with the Bosch extra air valve.

When I was first fitting one I noticed that there was quite a lot of air passing through it even when it was closed. Made a mental note of this and next time I was at the breakers I bought another one but it was the same so accepted that that is the way they are.

Having read recently, whilst trying to get mine to run properly (see above), that they can stick I wondered if this is why it did not seal completely. This morning I cleaned my second valve to ensure it was not sticking. With all the plop removed you can now see, and prove, that the vane in the valve comes round to a closed position then continues to its stop. In this position the back of the vane is slightly open.

What this means is that the valve must have a small amount of drive on it for it to be fully shut. This now answers one of the issues I had where as the car got close to the temp where no extra air was required the tickover would drop way back then recover.

Steve

PS any thoughts on my problem above? I'm not electronic so I'm stumped how to clear this interference if that is what it is.

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Steve, have a read here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopi...osch&st=160 Read BBC's post at the bottom of the page.

Should start to get things a bit clearer, the main issue you will have if you hadn't read all that (and the subsequent page), that the 'closed' value you have set in Megatune is probably wrong, and needs to be around 25-30% duty cycle to actually be shut, 0% is about 50% open I think, anything above the closed value will be linearly more open.

Make sense?

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Don't know why I missed that will have to go back and read the whole thread again in case there are some other good things in there. Slapped wrist.

Right so I have now modified things as best I can but the menus are different in MSII Extra and the settings are in different values which just adds to the confusion.

Had hoped that something in those settings would cure my problems but alas no.

So I'm still trying to find a cure for this interference. I'm more convinced now that it is not the code as it will all run nicely on the stim without the valve connected. When I plug the valve in it will behave for a while then everything goes haywire with all the gauges in MT jumping about and even the pump LED on the stim flashes. The valve also crashes open and closed.

Flyback diode

On the car I have one in the loom at the valve.

When running on the bench I have one wired on the stim board.

On the Extra forum I have been advised to fit it on the MS board but the manual says it should be at the valve.

Can I put in more than one flyback diode so I have one at the valve and another on the MS board?

Steve

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  • 2 months later...

Still trying to resolve my Idle valve problem.

As I said above the thing just sends MS haywire and having tried all manner of things to resolve it. I became convinced that something had failed/blown in the circuit but I have no electronics knowledge or test kit so no way to prove this.

I have another project on the go which will use MS. Today I completed building the ECU and you guessed it....idle does exactly the same thing.

So today's question is, who can I send one of these too to get it tested and resolve the IDLE problem?

I can most likely live without the idle control on the Dakar but the other project is a Chevy V8 with 500hp which will not be fun to drive with idle issues.

Steve

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I think I have built it correctly but the problem is the same on both my ECUs so it is unlikely to be a faulty or blown component but I could have built both of them wrong.

I have omitted Q4, Q20, D8 and replaced R39 with a jumper.

I have fitted a TIP121 to the heatsink (where Q16 would have been). It is fitted with a mica washer, heat transfer compound and nylon fixings. TIP121 is wired to the Q4 position. I have lost count of the times I have checked I have wired it correctly and also checked I have not bridged the pads when soldering.

I have tried fitting the Flyback diode 1N4001 both at the valve and at the stimulator. Wired with the band towards the +12v.

In the build sequence I have…..

• Not fitted jumpers at Op.22.

• I have assembled Op.50a not 50b.

• I have not installed any of Op.51.

• At Op.52 I have fitted the Hall Sensor jumpers.

• At Op.65 the jumpers for EDIS have been made and the high current Ignition driver components. Have not been fitted.

• Op.69 I have not installed the extra PWM Flyback circuit components as this seemed to be related to low impedance injectors.

For reference this is a V3 board with MSII and I’m running MSII-Extra.

Here’s hoping you just return with a quick answer like ‘What made you think you could leave out Op.69’.

Many thanks for looking.

Steve

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Can't see any major problems with your build order.

Sure I posted this before but can't see it so what the heck, this is my "usual" build, shows the PWM idle layout:

v3_usual_components.png

Obviously MS-II is slightly different but the PWM idle bit should be the same.

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I take it the components in white are not fitted?

There are components on your board that are not on mine so I will have a look at what they do and ask again about those before fitting them.

Is the 1K resistor on the proto area anything to do with idle as it looks like it may connect to the TIP122? I don’t have anything like that on my board.

Steve

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Some further questions if I may.

• Is there a reason for using 1K3 at R12 rather than 390 Ohm?

• Why is C12 fitted?

• You install the PWM injector circuit on your boards. Is there any possibility not fitting them is causing my problem? If so I can easily fit them.

• Your wire links are different to mine but this may be a difference between MS-I & MS-II.

my links are…..

o R39

o D1

o D2

o XG1 to XG2

o OPTOIN to TACHSELECT

o TSEL to OPTOOUT

o TIP121 links to Q4

o JS10 to IGN

• I think the SAW pullup I mentioned before is done in/on the MS-II processor.

Again many thanks for your time.

Steve

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• Is there a reason for using 1K3 at R12 rather than 390 Ohm?

Yes, because the manual says so :P

• Why is C12 fitted?

See previous answer ;)

• You install the PWM injector circuit on your boards. Is there any possibility not fitting them is causing my problem? If so I can easily fit them.

Doubtful but possible, you are driving 8 injectors whereas many people with MS will only ever drive 4.

• Your wire links are different to mine but this may be a difference between MS-I & MS-II.

my links are…..

o R39

I'm using the link on R43 to ground the TIP122 instead.

o D1

o D2

o XG1 to XG2

o OPTOIN to TACHSELECT

o TSEL to OPTOOUT

All these show what's going on - you're driving the tach input from the positive pulses from the EDIS rather than the -ve as per the MS-I version. I don't think that will affect anything although I'd want to know the EDIS can source enough current to make the opto work reliably.

o TIP121 links to Q4

Pretty much the same as mine except for the link on R43 instead of R39.

o JS10 to IGN

As per the MS-II manual.

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