2.5 n/a to 200tdi

[disco_al]

right, a mate of mine is looking to swap his n/a lump out of his defender after the timing belt went on it.

i have looked through the excellent conversion guide in the tech archive, but still have a few questions for the guru's out there

we are off to look at a complete disco that is local to us tonight, to inspect the engine (usual stuff will be done - cambelt and filters before it's started) and other gubbins. In the tech archive it says that the 200tdi will mate up to his original box ok, but would it be much more hassle to change the box for the disco one or best left alone?

we are hoping to get it done without too much arsing about with fab work, and were wondering that if by using the disco box, we could retian the disco front pipe.

any other helpful pointers would be muchly appreciated on this one, as i am sure there will be more questions to come.

[yellow]

Disco box has the 'sticks' in a different place and somehow just does not look right ina Defender. NA box would bolt on easily.

[Eightpot]

keep the original 'box.

Downpipe is a pain, but I can recommend the Steve Parker one - looks pricey but fits like a glove and is as free flowing as you'll get in that much space.

Oil cooler pipes - get the ones of the disco, very carefully hacksaw the metal collar off each end and then saw through the rubber hose so you can remove the metal end fitting and tube bit that attach to the rad/engine. Dont damage the bit the hose slides onto.

Then go to Pirtek or other hydraulic supplies place, get some more hose and some hose clamps and you can extend them the right length for a few quid.

If you find the rad sits too high there is a very simple way to fix it - I've read of people cutting down and rewelding chassis mounts but this isn't necessary - post up if you need some info.

Airbox is straightforward if you use a Def 200tdi one.

[Muther Trucker]

i`m in the middle of doing this to my 110 and making yet another "how to" write up...

look for an exhaust on ebay, theres a bloke on there making downpipes for £80 or with intercooler pipes for £170

the oil cooler pipes off a td might be long enough, or you can get 2 sets of disco pipes and cut the metal bits and weld them together to make a longer set if your good with the welder (pirtek wanted £40 when i was converting my 90...)

even if you used the disco box so the downpipe cleared you would have to move the engine mounting brackets on the chassis... apparently ashcrofts do a conversion kit for using the disco box in a defender...

use the engine mounts off the block of the old diesel

you should be able to keep the disco flywheel housing, but will need to drill + tap 4 or 5 holes out...

move the clutch pipe round the corner before you fit the engine - its much easier...

[disco_al]

cheers for the advice so far guys. we will have the complete truck to dismantle, so should have everything we need off the disco - thought it was better to get the whole thing, rather than just the engine.

[Les Henson]

If you have a complete donor vehicle, then unscrew the thread adaptors out of the radiator oil cooler and swap them over. You can then use the N/A oil cooler pipes, which are longer and will fit ok.

Disco transfer ratio is different to the N/A (1.2 against 1.4). If you plan to replace the crank rear seal before fitting the engine, then use the N/A flywheel housing and then it will all slot together (unless you do change the gearbox, then don't do the swap. Use the Disco fuel filter and pipework, but the two that go to the inj pump will be about 4" too short if you are mounting the filter in the same place. Just cut the plastic pipes in a convenient place and add some 8mm I/D rubber fuel hose - held in place with 10mm fuel pipe clips. The plastic pipe is quite hard to push inside the fuel hose, so grease the end a little bit and it will slide right in. The alternator wire will be about 9-inches too long, but if you are using the Disco alternator, then you will have to change the ends from the single plug to 5 and 6mm I/D eyed ends, so just cut off the excess.

Les.

[Eightpot]

If you have a complete donor vehicle, then unscrew the thread adaptors out of the radiator oil cooler and swap them over. You can then use the N/A oil cooler pipes, which are longer and will fit ok.

N/A engines dont have oil coolers -

Disco pipes can be converted easy though - shouldn't cost £40 from pirtek either, you only need 2 metres of hose and eight hose clamps (double them up for extra sealing). Abpout 20 quids worth. They don't need proper swaged joints as the oil is at low pressure.

[disco_al]

Disco pipes can be converted easy though - shouldn't cost £40 from pirtek either, you only need 2 metres of hose and eight hose clamps (double them up for extra sealing). Abpout 20 quids worth. They don't need proper swaged joints as the oil is at low pressure

does it have to be any special hose? or can i use normal reinforced fuel type hose?

so far as extra's then we have;

exhaust downpipe

intercooler hoses

oil cooler hoses (possibly)

hose (8mm ID & xxmm)

hose clips

crank seals (possibly - will check first)

cam belt & tensioners

filters & fluids

Also, i am a bit confused with the oil cooler bit. Now i know in the tech archive (now printed out) it says that the disco pipes are longer, surely if that is the case then they don't need modding?

How does that work with the rad for not cutting the mounts - anything to make the job a bit quicker and less painful would be good

[Eightpot]

probably best to get the proper hose - there's still decent pressure, very hot oil and vibration - and if one splits you're engines goosed.

[disco_al]

another question for the guru's - which clutch should we go for (borg & beck make-wise i know)? 200tdi disco, 2.5 n/a defender - or something else???

even if you used the disco box so the downpipe cleared you would have to move the engine mounting brackets on the chassis

i take it they need moving forward a bit? he seems determined to use the disco box in this one - but i think it's going to be less hassle and easier to re-use the n/a box from the sound of it.

[Eightpot]

Don't think there's any difference in the clutch plate, but order a 200TDi one anyway if you're given the option.

There's a lot more work to do to use the disco engine - unless the N/A box is trashed I wouldn't bother personally.

A forum or google search should bring up some threads on using a disco gearbox.

The only downside to using the N/A box is the downpipe issue, but if you throw a bit of money at a decent conversion pipe it's an easy and quick job. Either that or fabricate one up, but looking at my Steve Parker one, theres quite a lot of fabricating and welding goes into it, otherwise it would be very easy to end up with something quite restrictive and poor fitting.

[disco_al]

The only downside to using the N/A box is the downpipe issue, but if you throw a bit of money at a decent conversion pipe it's an easy and quick job. Either that or fabricate one up, but looking at my Steve Parker one, theres quite a lot of fabricating and welding goes into it, otherwise it would be very easy to end up with something quite restrictive and poor fitting.

I have ordered the conversion kit from eblag, intercooler pipes and downpipe to save some time.

Bearmach are sorting the seals, cambelt, tensioners etc which will be with me this afternoon. Clutch i should have in stock here somewhere.......

[pist0nbr0ke]

Having just done mine, it is best for you to use the existing box, No need to change the bellhousing either just tap the two holes that have been drilled already- Cheers Landrover for thinking we might do this!!!!

The down pipe is best get from either Steve Parker or in my case of that popular auction site. The two i have bought came from a guy in worcestershire, cost 70 quid. it gets a bit cramped around there and you will have to move the clucth hydralic line (about 1inch). Also make sure the starter is good, you wont have to take it all apart for a least 2 weeks then!

The hoses for oil were made up by a local hydralic guy (for cash!!) and the turbo hoses i got were from Merlin motorsport at Castle Coombe.

Les has his guide on here in the tech archive. Read that a good couple of times again and take your time.

Cheers

Neil

[disco_al]

exhaust downpipe has arrived now, along with the new clutch, gaskets, belt, tensioners etc.

now for another question, can we use a defender 200tdi rad with the disco intercooler? we need to get a replacement rad as the core in the disco donor is goosed.

[Muther Trucker]

now for another question, can we use a defender 200tdi rad with the disco intercooler? we need to get a replacement rad as the core in the disco donor is goosed.

i dont think so, there appears to be some differences cos paddocks lists them as 2 different parts with 2 very different prices....

Radiator - 200TDI to JA918061 - DEFENDER

NTC4893

£263.83 ex VAT

Radiator - 200TDI from JA918062 - DEFENDER

ESR1676

£263.83 ex VAT

or:

Radiator - 200TDI - DISCOVERY 1

BTP1823S

£92.94 ex VAT

i inquired about a re-core for my disco rad when i put the 200tdi int my 90 + it was £125.... so maybe better to get a disco one from paddocks...

[Eightpot]

If I remember rightly, the frame is the same size, rad and intercoolers are the same physical size whether 200/300/disco/defender but the position of the inlet/outlets on rad and intercooler can vary.

I think disco rad has inlet/outlet both on one side, on defender version they are on opposite sides, though I might be corrected there.

I have a disco 200TDi rad and a 300 intercooler. The 200tdi rad is perfect for the conversion - I think I was able to use my old n/a bottom hose and just extended it a bit to get to the now further away radiator - the X-fan controller switch is perfect for this, but to start off with I used a bit of 2" plastic plumbing pipe to sleeve the extra bit if hose on to reach the rad.

The disco 300tdi intercooler has the bottom inlet pipe at a better angle I think than the 200tdi version.

hope that helps

[pist0nbr0ke]

When i did mine I made that "mistake" You can use a defender rad and disco intercooler together no problem.

However when you put the defender rad into the suround the rubber mounting holes are in a different position! sorted that with a small hole saw and moved the rubbers.

If you can get the surround rad and intercooler from a disco, all you have to do then is cut off the side supports on the rad frame and lower the mounting brackets shown in Les's instructions.

Cheers

Neil

[Hamish Grundy]

have you bought the whole kit off ebay?? i got mine yesterday and it fits great, and it enables you to keep the 'cheap' disco rad.

[Eightpot]

When i did mine I made that "mistake" You can use a defender rad and disco intercooler together no problem.

However when you put the defender rad into the suround the rubber mounting holes are in a different position! sorted that with a small hole saw and moved the rubbers.

If you can get the surround rad and intercooler from a disco, all you have to do then is cut off the side supports on the rad frame and lower the mounting brackets shown in Les's instructions.

Cheers

Neil

Think he's looking to use disco rad & intercooler tho, so shoooould be ok... might have had to drill holes in my frame as well thinking back, but there seemed to be a lot of drilling/chopping/bashing going on at the time so it's a bit of a blur.

Also if the rad frame sits too high, rather than chop and weld the chassis brackets, you can cut the feet off the bottom of the rad frame which lowers it an inch, then use bolts through the rad frame to attach it to the chassis mounts.

Also worth buying the proper rad frame mounting backets - got some from my local supplier for a few quid and it makes a nice neat job of it.

[disco_al]

Also worth buying the proper rad frame mounting backets

you mean the upper ones i take it? we did take them off the disco we took the rad/intercooler off

have you bought the whole kit off ebay?? i got mine yesterday and it fits great, and it enables you to keep the 'cheap' disco rad.

yep, arrived yesterday aswell, they were probably on the same delivery van

[disco_al]

right, both engines are now out of the defender and the donor so next weekend will be spent fitting new timing belt, seals and clutch to the 200tdi lump. Do we use the NA flywheel, or do we stick with the 200tdi one? I know it says in Les's excellent guid to use the TD one, but are they different to the NA?

He is also considering fitting the disc brake axle off the disco to the rear, is this likely to cause any gearing issues? in other words do we need to change the front axle as well or will it be ok with just the rear?

apologies for all the questions, but it's best to find out first....

[Les Henson]

Use the 200TDi flywheel, but perhaps they are the same thing?

I was referring to the flywheel housing.

Les.

[disco_al]

excellent, cheers Les. We already knew about the housing to make it fit his box, just the way it read it appeared as if we needed to swap the flywheel as well.

[Mark]

Rear Axle will be fine on it's own - the diff ratio is the same.

There has been some discussion on whether the brakes need to be biased differently with the discs being more efficient than the original drums, but the consensus seems to be that they are fine.

hth

Mark

[disco_al]

Well, the engine slipped into place Saturday afternoon, and is now awaiting some new PAS/Oil cooler hoses.

We didn't do the rad the same as Les did, we changed the idea a bit. Instead of cutting and rewelding the rad mounts, we hacked em off completely, then drilled two 10mm holes inthe cross member for the rad frame to sit in. With a couple of bits of 8mm fuel hose on the pegs (approx 10mm) it sits into the cross member - the top part of the rad frame will then sit on top as usual. Rather than weld the top brackets on, we opted to bolt them through the top of the frame.

Easy way to do this is to bolt the frame together, then place into the front area, loosely bolt the defender brackets back on, and mark where the holes need to be in the top. Two bolts from underneath, a couple of nuts and then bolt the brackets back on - saved loads of time.

I will take some photo's (when i remember to pick my camera up)