Boing Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) of using bio diesel in a Series III 2.25 diesel engine? My engine is completely standard. It is normal grade bio diesel from a uk petrol station. I would rather use bio if I can, but I don't want to hurt my Landy! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoggyN Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Hi, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) of using bio diesel in a Series III 2.25 diesel engine? My engine is completely standard. It is normal grade bio diesel from a uk petrol station. I would rather use bio if I can, but I don't want to hurt my Landy! Thanks Commercially available biodiesel shouldn't hurt your Land Rover. If you would rather use it on environmental grounds I would think again. Currrent production methods have been linked to large scale deforestation as well as increased hunger in the third world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Your fuel pump won't take to it too well, expect the fuel pump to gunge up over a period of time and eventually stop pumping fuel through. I also hear that the injector pump on the 2.25 is not the happiest in the world when it comes to running on anything but diesel, whereas the later Bosch units allegedly work fine with it. I've also seen evidence of the harm veg oil can do to a diesel engine if you're running nearly on pure veg oil or on pure veg oil. It increases the carbon deposits left on the pistons at a rapid rate, so over several thousand miles it can build up enough carbon to potentially begin scoring the bores. Apparently the way to combat this is to increase the temperature and improve filtration of the veg oil as it goes through the system, and I was once told that the reason for the high carbon deposits is because the veg oil burns cooler than normal diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boing Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Commercially available biodiesel shouldn't hurt your Land Rover. If you would rather use it on environmental grounds I would think again. Currrent production methods have been linked to large scale deforestation as well as increased hunger in the third world. Thanks for the info. Yes, I was just trying to do my bit for the environment, but I'll certainly have to look into this further now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Maniacs Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Thanks for the info. Yes, I was just trying to do my bit for the environment, but I'll certainly have to look into this further now. Hi check out http://journeytoforever.org/ they have been using Bio for as long as I can remember (goldfish joke comes to brain) they have 2 Land rovers there is also a very big useful section in there about making the stuff yourself this is where I started back about 3 years ago and should help you along the way to almost free fuel.. I collect local WVO take it away for free but provided a service in return by providing a lockable drum with a wire grid to help stop most of the bits getting into it and steam cleaning the area around it also for free.. I try to eat at most of the places that I have.. and also have picked up quite a bit more work with the steam cleaner from doing this.. One of the best ports of call for all your Bio-diesel questions is http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html this is a very good starting place and training ground for Bio-diesel dont even think of just going and getting a reactor without first having mastered the process running test batches journey to forever will show you how to do this and show you all the equipment needed to start out first with 1lt-2lts with the mini-processor then move up to 20lts at a time and When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale it right up.. 3years of making the stuff and still enjoying doing it Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If you are using commercial bio B100 which is quality (some of the stuff produced by back street merchants is not!) then you problems will come in this order on a 2.25/2.5 diesel if orginal'ish Series fittent (ignore most of this id you have a 200/300tdi). If you are buying from a reputable main stream filling station then their bio should meet EN specifications. Fuel lines if made from rubber will suffer under with B100 and break down far more rapidly then they would with dino (mineral diesel). Fuel pump internals in the old Lucas are not known to be happy with the chemical make-up of bio. What for leaks from the top spindle seal. A seal rebuild would sort this with a modern kit. The detergent properties of bio will clean out the tank and fuel lines (as mentioned by previous posters) from years of sludge build-up. This will all end up in your fuel filter. Solution is to run with B100 for 50-100 miles then swap the fuel filter. then do the same again afetr another 100-200 miles which should catch the crud. If you are using diesel just touted by the big fuel chains as Bio then check the rating. If it is B10 or less then stick it in with impunity. There are no worries Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Maniacs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 My local Morrisons supermarket has launched B30 biodiesel on the forecourt very helpful as a winter fuel 30% blend of fossil and bio and good news for the folk who haven't the time to make there own.. As it's not just a question of just mixing it up in the garage and hoping for the best you do need to know what your are doing and how to test it to make sure it's fit for the task involved. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Spot on post from Cartman. You might also like to check out Veggy/bio forum There is also quite a lot of info on this site too. Interesting that Morrisons are selling B30 - the vast majority of car manufacturers will not warrant anything above B5 for use in their cars. Until this changes, Bio will always be for the 'slightly odd few' in the country who make it in the shed out the back. It will be very difficult to get into mainstream circulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bio-Maniacs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Further to my resent post about Morrisons B30: I found a press releasing some further information regarding there product " Morrisons offering B30 Biodiesel at its pumps 18 July 2008 - UK Superstore giant Morrisons has launched a new biodiesel that has been approved for use by PSA Peugeot-Citroen. The new B30 pump isnNow available at more than 50 of the supermarket's forecourts across the UK. The Harvest B30 Biodiesel can be used to run any HDi-engined Citroen or Peugeot built since 1998, this is estimated to be some 1.5 million cars. B30 Biodiesel is made of 30 per cent biodiesel and 70 per cent standard diesel. 'Our new B30 is 50 per cent recycled cooking oil and 50 per cent rapeseed oil, all UK-sourced,' says Morrisons' petrol director Phil Maud. 'It's refined in Northumbria, so we're very happy with it from a sustainability point of view.' " A link to where they are selling the stuff http://www.morrisons.co.uk/Store-Finder/St...B30-Bio-Diesel/ Suppliers had began mixing the biofuel into all petrol and diesel supplies in April 2008, under the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO). The figures show that biofuel accounted for 2.1% of UK road fuel for the first month of the scheme, against a target for the year of 2.5%. The majority of biofuel was biodiesel (86%), with 14% bioethanol. So most Diesel users are using it already with out knowing about it in there Cars.... But I quite happy with my bio making out the back shed (lol) having gone though the process of first getting a waste carriers licence and having contacted my local office for a environmental risk assessment as I am in a area with a lot of water around me not that b100 is a issue I still would not wont it leaking into the water table so have a bonded set up inside a 30ft shipping unit I also had the bio-fuel tested a lab to see what results I was getting as I'm very lucky to know a chap that works in Holland at a bio processing plant they are way ahead in Bio-diesel over there than we are in the UK at the moment.. My Bio-Diesel production in the past three years Lab tested to B100 standers 48,000 odd miles in a S11 Land Rover Tdi200 only issues have been in the winters but down to me not adding fossil diesel, Three trips to Spain and back one trip to Holland coming back though France the only odd thing Iv only the costs for 40lts apx old diesel fuel oh and no road tax... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boing Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Thanks for all the info. It was the Morrisons B30 I was thinking of using. I certainly don't fancy making it myself! So I'm getting the impression that B30 should be ok, but to expect a bit more wear and tear if I did choose to use it..... Never realised it was so complicated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Interesting news from Peugeot/Citroen. Yes, it should be fine in a 2.25 lump, but do keep a spare filter in the car for the first few tank fulls, and watch out for leaking rubber components/seals etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodave Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Spot on post from Cartman. You might also like to check out Veggy/bio forum There is also quite a lot of info on this site too. Interesting that Morrisons are selling B30 - the vast majority of car manufacturers will not warrant anything above B5 for use in their cars. Until this changes, Bio will always be for the 'slightly odd few' in the country who make it in the shed out the back. It will be very difficult to get into mainstream circulation. Out of date: Citroen/Peugeot now warrant all new cars for B30 and the entire Citroen works fleet now runs on B30. It's a changing world out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodave Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Oh I do wish people would take the time to understand the difference between biodiesel and veggie oil. Once again then. Crude oil is chemically refined into diesel, vegetable oil is chemically refined into biodiesel. The confusion usually arises because while you cannot put crude oil into a diesel car, you can put some veggie oil in and it will run. It will also do a lot of harm because it is thick and viscous. It will clog injectors, damage pumps, etc. Biodiesel is refined to make it very, very similar to fossil diesel. It will not strain your pump, it will not clog injectors, it will not damage an engine, even a brand new vehicle straight off the forecourt. The reason biodiesel is not warranted from new is twofold. First, biodiesel attracts a lower and often zero duty rate, so the government misses out on millions each year. Second, you can make biodiesel at home. We do. Unfortunately, most people who try it make rubbish fuel that will kill a diesel engine in a few thousand miles. Manufacturers take a simple approach. If they can't guarantee the quality of the fuel going into your car, then they just impose a blanket ban on all biodiesel used at 100%. Simple. But maybe they can explain why a car made in the UK for Sweden must, by their laws, be adapted to run on 100% biodiesel, but exactly the same car and model for the British roads is only allowed to use 5%? By the way, most people only get round to experimenting with veggie oil/biodiesel with older cars, afetr all, what sort of a nutter would pour veggie oil into the tank of a brand new car? If you talk to any motor manufacturer, you find the life of diesel injectors is usually around 100,000 miles. In other words before you even pour in the veggie oil to see what happens, your injectors are three quarters knackered. You must have seen a 10 year old van pouring out black smoke going up hills? That's nearly always caused by clogged injectors and all of those have only ever run on fossil diesel (biodiesel with clogged injectors produces a nice white smoke and smells a whole pile nicer). Biodave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazelle Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Commercially available biodiesel shouldn't hurt your Land Rover. If you would rather use it on environmental grounds I would think again. Currrent production methods have been linked to large scale deforestation as well as increased hunger in the third world. Check where it comes from if you can. It is easy to produce EN14214 spec biodiesel from used cooking oil. That is in effect recycling. But with the duty the government is about to put on biodiesel it will not be particularly economic ,from a producers point of view, to produce UCO based biodiesel for transportation use. This is probably why it is not being produced commercially on a large scale for this purpose. Check for fuel sourced from UCO or from sustainable oils, rather than rapeseed etc. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozza35 Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Also ,am i right in saying they use palm oil in the biodiesel at forecourts ,palm oil production is responsible for the mass destruction of rainforests so is not a very enviromentally sound product at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 Commercial Bio diesel killed 2 lucas 2.5TD injector pumps, cost us over £400 each to have the damage repaired. Bosch fuel pumps as on TDi's will have no problem, as the fuel is not used to lubricate the bearings. If i were you, with a 2.25, Id stick to what you buy at the pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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