D2 facelift vs pre-facelift models

[Cal]

Hi all,

It's been a long time since I've been around in the world of Discos, but used have a 300Tdi D1.

Have been driving normal (aka boring) cars for 2-3 years now after getting rid of the D1 and the old familiar hankering for a landy has returned!

Can I have your opinions on whether or not the difference in terms of reliability (am thinking about the dowels that fix the head for example) and trim levels is worth the difference in price between a face lifted and pre-face lift D2? Am not that fussed about the difference in car tax, but am thinking more along the lines of are the alleged improvements to the face lift model actually real and worth the difference in price? Decent mileage facelift models still seem to be up around the £10k mark which seems quite high to me after the relaively recent freefall in Disco prices.

Thanks in advance,

Cal

[plasticbadger]

Other than the obvious external changes Land Rover quote 'suspension and brake revisions' on the post 2002 cars as well as an improved, quieter transfer box. I doubt after 5+ years use these changes would be as noticable as mileage and condition (such as the dowels, compared to keeping water in the engine!). Also my early D2 had all the re-calls relating to problems with the oil pump etc. From even a late D1 any D2 will seem good!

For my money the earlier cars with the deep front bumper look better anyway, however that bumper suffers if you take it off road.

Depreciation is going to be your problem, I spent £7000 on an early D2 just over 2 years ago (at the time you could have easily spent that on a nice late 300Tdi). 40,000 miles and plenty of offroad use later, I'd struggle to get £2,500 for it. If you're going to use the car hard/high mileage I'd definately get an older model as you're going to be losing less money over your ownership. The later models will only be increasingly hurt by falling values of the D3 and will de-value at an increasing rate.

For £10K you can easily get a D3, which is dramatically different, with considerably better interior and road manners, but still with excellent off road ability.

I'm always a fan of getting the oldest of a new model, if that makes sense, because it will depreciate slower than the newest of an old model.

[BogMonster]

For £10K you can easily get a D3, which is dramatically different, with considerably better interior and road manners, but still with excellent off road ability.

I'm always a fan of getting the oldest of a new model, if that makes sense, because it will depreciate slower than the newest of an old model.

Depends on how long you intend to keep it and what you are looking at for the pros and cons and how you look at ownership costs.

For me, any vehicle that needs half the top of the engine taking off to get at the glow plugs which then snap off in the head anyway despite excruciating caution, which means taking the engine out to get the heads off, which means taking the body off to get the engine out, would be complete lunacy to buy second hand. The vehicles are all going this way now, the D2 was the last of the posh vehicles with any serious DIY prospects.

Two weeks labour to change a glow plug? I'm not surprised they are depreciating. By the time they get to 10 years old a new set of glow plugs for a D3, under the above scenario would probably cost more than the vehicle is worth. And it isn't made up - we've got one sitting in the workshop at the moment with exactly this issue - glow plugs are soaking in penetrating oil to try desperately not to break them off.

I'll stick with my D2 and suggest anybody else does the same - a late model D2 is a great vehicle apart from the headlights, and I love my 02 model. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years the early D3s are worth a lot less than a late D2 as people find out all the fun bits like the above.

[d1scv]

My view- Mix all the above ideas- and do as I did.

Find a nice, late, 2002 ish, non face lift D2. Then face lift it yourself for around £300 in bits.

With £10k in your pocket you will have a lot of money left to put back in the bank!

[Cal]

Thanks for the replies - quite a bit for me to consider I guess!

Bogmonsters comments are pretty much why I wouldn't get a D3 - in theory I can afford to buy one but I seriously doubt I could afford to run it (part of my decision at the moment is whether I can actually really afford to run any landy as a day to day car).

I too generally prefer the look of the pre-facelift D2s in many ways and in my head they are what a Disco should look like!

Thanks for your comments about depreciation Plasticbadger - that's the kind of thing I tend to forget about - still reeling a bit from my current car (a Mazda 3) dropping about £3k in value in one year.

I'm really struggling in terms of the decision - love the idea of having a landy again but I don't need one in the 4x4 sense and after having had no trouble at all (other than soft paintwork and a bit of bubbling on the alloys) with the Mazda I'm not sure I can face going back to leaking sunroofs, possibly leaking air suspension and maybe engine troubles on a D2 - it would be fair to say the trouble I had with my D1 has really put me off in the sense of reliability, but I loved driving it and enjoyed it immensely when it was all working well!

As usual only I can decide - just want to know as much as possible with any second hand purchase what I'm potentially letting myself in for if I do get one!

Cheers,

Cal

[Orange]

Can I be the first to point out that not all D2s are unreliable.....??

Mine is a 2002 Serengeti spec manual (with an IRB tweak) and after 62,000 miles it still goes like a train and has not had any of the problems with heads/dowels etc that others mention. I do benefit from not having any 'spare' electrics to go wrong. I've only got electric windows and climate control. Maybe mine is 1 in a million, but.......... The only issue that I have had is a disintegrating dual mass flywheel that LR took 2 attempts to get right, but it wasn't the end of the world.

I will be critical about the fuel consumption, though. I am now managing to squeeze 29MPG out of it since having it tuned. Before the tweak, I was averaging 26MPG... It will hit hard compared to a little Mazda, especialy when you are still watching the pump fly round over £80 and you realise that you are only going to go 500 miles on it...

[d1scv]

This Serengeti seems to have a lot going for it. My pal has got the auto 02, and has had hardly any problems.

No ACE, no cruise control, no SLS- and nice wheels.

110k miles and he moaned big time some 3 years ago when 3 amigos came up! Sensor needed reseating.

I see the Serengeti having a big appeal to the more traditional LR man.

[Cal]

Can I be the first to point out that not all D2s are unreliable.....??

That's kind of what I meant above - I'm pretty sure my D1 was a particularly bad example! I just can't afford to be in the same circumstances again.

Thanks again for the info - I was hoping to be able to get arounhg 30mpg out of a D2 but guess a certain amount of that comes down to driving style. Am averaging about 34mpg out of the Mazda (2 litre petrol) but that can be fairly tedious - at least driving slowly in a landy I'd still be enjoying myself!

[plasticbadger]

I can second what's been said above, I've had my 1999 D2 2 1/2 years and 40,000 miles. The only non-service items I've had go wrong are a water pump failure (which limped on to the next service anyway) and an ACE pump which I 'accidently' removed from the underside on a tree , oh and some of the speakers have blown.

Mine's a 5 seat GS, which is the highest trimmed model without the air suspension - it's got ACE, HDC and TC, alloys, climate control and the Harmon Kardon stereo still, but no leather, cruise control and manual sunroofs

[jules]

I can second what's been said above, I've had my 1999 D2 2 1/2 years and 40,000 miles. The only non-service items I've had go wrong are a water pump failure (which limped on to the next service anyway) and an ACE pump which I 'accidently' removed from the underside on a tree , oh and some of the speakers have blown.

Mine's a 5 seat GS, which is the highest trimmed model without the air suspension - it's got ACE, HDC and TC, alloys, climate control and the Harmon Kardon stereo still, but no leather, cruise control and manual sunroofs

Go for a ES worth every penny as there not much more than a GS

In my 2000 Td5 D2 I have done 180,000 miles in mine I was going to scrap it but found a cheap gearbox and have changed our plans and I'm putting it back on the road

In all that milage

Tyres

Intercooler failed/ split

sectrion of loom

Wheel bearings x2

Air bag spring(turned out to be a loose connector)

Random water and turbo hoses.

but serviced on the botton every time and never cost more than £400 to do

It's cost me nothing to maintain over the time I was using it for work (4yrs) and in my eyes it's paid for its self three times now.

Its never been cained or driven hard well only when I'm not driving it anyway