Twin Shocks or Good Springs?

[sutty_32]

I'm replacing the britpart springs on my 300tdi disco, they have sagged worse than a nuns....well you know! Maybe my fault for not getting HD ones, but wasn't planning on the winch and heavy duty everything :-p

I am planning on doing some towing (once a month ish) of a challenge truck / pay and play special buggy. I have two options with my budget. Bare in mind I also plan on doing regular pay and plays/greenlanes with quite a large set of muds (all terrains will be used for towing) so need +2" springs.

Option 1:

Flatdog or OME springs, medium duty. Swinging towards flatdog as they are slightly cheaper but does anybody know how good they are? They are all tested so should be good and I have heard they are similar to OME.

Option2:

Slightly cheaper Terraferma springs with set of shocks (only £30 more for the set than the flatdog springs) and then fit twin shock mounts to the back, and leave my procomps on the front. I figure this should in theory be better for towing and will make the shocks last longer, but is it actually much better? The off roading I do is not fast, so I can't see any advantage there. Does also look the dogs though! I know Terraferma have a good reputation, but surely the springs are not as good as OME etc?

Always open to an option 3 if anybody has any new ideas?

Thanks in advance for people replies/advice/experience. I trust people on this forum much more than a salesman

[sutty_32]

Oh, and I have removed the anti-roll bars

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

OK

Stop and think

What are you trying to achive ?

Lift ?

Flex ?

Carrying on expedition huge amount of kit ?

Road use fast speed ?

Daily Driver ?

Comp Truck ?

Coming from saying I have fitted Britpart stuff and am now thinking of fitting carlos fandango superb fizbucks springs

is not much help. For example what is wrong with you going into a dealer and just fitting new genuine decent quality

fitting stiff that suits 10,000s of other 300 tdis ?

Once we know that then the suggestions can start, but don't confuse having fitted s***e that just std genuines won't do verything you wnat ?

Bear in mind that you have already purcahsed "Wallet Wise" with ****part, don;t make the same mistake again

For general all roundness and a gener5al firming up, but still giving articuloation to some degree, decent road manners and a tad of lift all round OME (olod man Emu) with THEIR Shocks is a hard combo to beat, yes there is always cheaper, you could on that basis just buy new ***part stuff

With springs and shocks it is PARTLY you pay for what you get, but also you have to have a plan of what you are trying to achive.

Nige

[davek0974]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but surely single, twin or triple shocks wont affect ride height??? The shocks and springs have different jobs to perform, the springs support the weight whilst allowing articulation while the shocks prevent the weight from bouncing uncontrollably after every bump. The two need to be in balance for good suspension, lifted or not, and i haven't heard (or i dont think so) anyone saying a lifetd car tows better:)

BTW Does Britpart stuff last beyond the one year manuf guarantee? if not then just return it surely? I have fitted some of their stuff but i'm now following the rule that if it contains or pumps fluids, is a bearing, seal, or hard to get to, then fit good stuff

[sutty_32]

I am planning on doing some towing (once a month ish) of a challenge truck / pay and play special buggy. I have two options with my budget. Bare in mind I also plan on doing regular pay and plays/greenlanes with quite a large set of muds (all terrains will be used for towing) so need +2" springs.

Sorry HFH but I thought I said what I wanted from the truck

2" lift with good towing ability, flex would be nice but you can't have everything. I have also removed the anti-roll bars, so aftermarket springs would probably be better suited? I wasn't poo pooing std stuff, but I didn't think I could get gen part that would give this.

With the roll bars removed and with towing I think the back end will need stiffening a little to make it more stable, so stiff springs or good damping could do this?. The springs I was going to go for were the medium duty +2" versions, so that would give the lift. Twin shocks should be able to reduce the amount the bounce/roll with the additional weight of a trailer, or does it just half the load on each shock? I'm also concerned this might give a really stiff ride without lots of weight on the back.

I know that with a set of good springs and shocks would be good for towing, but are 2 better than 1? I know you get what you pay for, but sometimes you also pay for the name, not heard this too much with OME, but at £100 a shock (from devon 4x4 at least) they are quite a bit more money than I was looking at spending!

I had the Britpart springs fitted for around 15 months before I noticed it went all lop sided

Thanks for replies guys, hope this is a bit clearer of what I want

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right

Spring n Shocks - 2 things that you never ever finishing learning about

Taking both together for a moment, here are a list of classic (IMVHO) MIstakes

I have fitted a set of Fergerlur Gruntphuttock Extremes and need to fit a 3" lift :

Wrong, a " 3" Lift" is like saying all lifts are the same

they are not

Some "Lifts" are a byproduct of getting what you are after, some are built in to other factors

but a 3" lift is not a universal "Fix" or "Job"

For example, lets say you want around 1/5 inches extar height

you could :

Bodge it with 1.5 inch spacers (Don't laugh many do)

Buy seriously heavy duty springs that seem the same length as yours - but have xxx squinch Rating

- you bolt them on a the weight of the LR becomes insignificant - so it doesn't setlle much = lift

or

But some seriously loooooong Springs, but of a softer poundage, they setttle evn more than the std springs, but being sooo

long they still end up even settled higher = Lift

Or something in between.

Oh, and then even then you have probably

Buggered up Castor, steering will be unpleasant, UJs will wear out faster

can eaily have steering shakes, COG has been changes, props may be too short off road

and a heap of other issues, and if you have fitted the wrong or poor Quality stuff ?????

Bump stops are also another factor, to my mind fitting longer bump stops is as useful as

opening a beer on Monday for use on Saturday, pointless and daft in all sorts of ways

ie for travel I have made reduced bump stops, but it means to gain here you have to do other things

to allow it all to work, People also rave on about Polybushes - I rave about then too, but not in the same way

ahem so, as an example of two ways to go :

ie on my truck I wanted

Long Travel

Soft Poundages

Balanced travel front and rear (horrifically difficult )

Genuine springs so I new what I was using

Quality stuff

Strong shockers for both Rebound AND Compresion - maybe even adjustable#

+5 inch travel front and rear as a Target

ability to drive over a "Sleeping Policman" at speed ...

- without either loosing my filings or bouncing about like zebbidie

Some sort of road manners 1/2" - 1" higher on Drivers side - and level with me in it

Higher at the rear by about 3/4" so as to be "Looking downwards" off road - not higher at the front "Looking Upwards"

ability to also shove all recovery kit in and suspension cope with it - ie not so soft it hits bump stops

and so on

The chances of me getting this from a "Off the shelf kit" is Zero

Also bear in mind you cannot have it all, all set ups are going to be a compromise (inc std factory set ups)

So,

There are 2 ways to go :

The "Kit Way"

The poor Quality kits will just say 2" lift or "Heavy Duty" and with +2 Shocks and prob "Heavy Duty " too

The high qulaity Kits will poss say something similar above, but then give on request somewhere in the website the

technical set up as to hiow reached - ie Old Man Emu I still see as the best for "Kits" there are choices and data to help you

get the right one, a "One size fits all" is truely nonsense. Take 2 trucjks, fit 2 sets of the "Super Heavy duty 2" lit" kits

to them.

Truck 1 - factory fresh truck cab V8

Truck 2 - Twin Winches full heardtop 300TDi Winch Bumper spare rear wheel carrier, roof rack and jerry cans for expedition

and enough spares to build a battleship

?? They are NOT going to end up with the same job / result

However I am not knocking "Lift / HD Kits" - some are very good (OME ) some are truly a waste of money

Then, other than the above qulaity as always comes into it

There are some on here who have got / had OME for YEARs and use there 4x4 heavily, and still the kit is as good as new,

not much point buying junk and expecting the same - but so many do, then we have the "My truck has a lean" type posts

and they truly wonder why as its "Only 5 months old"

Never ever underestimate qulaity - esp on springs and shocks

So, find out what your truck had fitted spring colour code / poundage / lengths as std, this give you a starting point

Then look at OME and look and compare the kits / poundages / lenths etc, you will begin to see the light

Ask others about SPECIFIC set ups - ie Old Man emu Springs X & Y and also think what has you truck got on it now wesight

wise it didn't leaving the factory ? - this needs to be thought about, for towing - and towing LOTs then you may end up

with a tail end high truck when not loaded - compromise may help

OK

"The Other Way"

As with many here, myself inc I didn't find any of the kits giving me what I needed.

So, (I am not going to explain blow by blow how here)

Find std springs, poundages and Lengths

Take truck FULLY KITTED OUT INC FUEL SPARES ETC to weighbrigh

weigh entire truck

weigh rear only

weigh front only

Measure on a flat driveway heights at all 4 corners and mark where marked (you can't on yours as they have ****part fitted)

Drive around find a identical as poss truck and measure ! (Be prepared to explain to owner WTF you are doing

Then use LR90 Spring calculator to play around with alternatative springs poundages

the calculator will show new heights etc

For towing truck GO HARDER not softer,

Post up here maybe for views and comments

Then shocks

If you staying around standard heights, then DeCardon take some beating, and they are adjustable

I run +5 adjustable Resovior Terrafirms and am inmpressed so far, aviod Procomps and armstongs etc,

Old man emu again are top of the list with DeCarbons.

By doing the 2nd way you can tune your suspension to exactly what you want and need

just do not expect it to be a quick fix, a load of thinkingh and research has to be done, some

are up for this, many are not, if you are not then thats fine, but buy QUALITY Kit, I think again IMHO

an OME KIT is the best qulaity and unbeatable for an off the shelf system, you may find this view

is backed up by users on here who have had this set up for years

Heres mine (sort of effort No 7 towards my "List" at the top :

Note ! - When I changed form Hardtop to Truck Cab, and re did the Cage, and added a New Winch,

oh and a challenge front end, new Homemade winch bumber etc etc - it was no longer "Right"

and springs and shocks changed again, but the weights had changed and moved significantly

For MINOR adjustments 0 - ie 1/2 lift here and there use Antirattle shims, these are 12mm but can't remember part number, for extar pop plate under the spring base unit and add longer bolts, 6-15mm plate and shims allow carefull tweaking to get exactly ride height wanted

So, is it sorted 100% as I wnat now ?

NAH when I find time I need to tweak it a tad more

HTH

Nige

[pwam2006]

i haven't read through all of this, so sorry if this has been suggested. but why not the air bags? set your truck up for the greenlaning etc with your OME or whatever. then fit the helper bags to ''stiffen'' the rear end. pretty much best of both no?

[sutty_32]

Thanks for reply Nige,

Some good info there, I know not all trucks are the same, which is why the better firms (OME, Terraferma, Flatdog) have different sets they recommend for different kitted out vehicles. I have winch and heavy duty front bumper, and tank guard with removable tow bar rear and HD rear bumper, so from reading what OME say their medium duty +2" should do the truck, however, I will go through your suggested method of looking at spring rates etc and check it all makes sense first. I assume all 300tdi disco's had the same spec springs as standard?

Gotta give it to you though, your trucks suspension looks very well sorted!

[sutty_32]

i haven't read through all of this, so sorry if this has been suggested. but why not the air bags? set your truck up for the greenlaning etc with your OME or whatever. then fit the helper bags to ''stiffen'' the rear end. pretty much best of both no?

TBH I had completely forgotten about these!