Just joined the club...1966 Series 2a

[CCbullet]

Hello, I just bought a 1966 Series 2a as a project to work on with my son. We're just getting started in figuring out everything that needs to be done to get it back on the road. The main need right now is a complete bulkhead replacement/restore...replacement would be better. Any advice there would be helpful...we're in New York.

But here might be an easy one. We plan to eventually use this as a "beach wagon", only using it in warm weather. So we won't need the heater. I don't know all the terminology yet, but as I see it now, there is a hose from the engine into a heater valve, which circulates through the heater, then back into the radiator. If we completely remove and bypass the heater, would we just link the hose directly from the engine to the radiator?

[jordan_meakin]

Hi, glad to hear someone else is on the road, so to speak, with another one. Any pics? Out of curiosity, is this your first?

You seem aware that the bulkhead is a common problem with these. New, galvanised replacements are available (pretty much every part for a Landy is from John Craddocks or Paddocks in the UK, not sure about the states) but, are very expensive. Second hand replacements may be better but be careful in picking and prepping them. Repair is very possible if you are good at welding. You can get repair panels for the top corners and foot wells amongst others which are the common areas for corrosion. As with any steel, you may find as you cut and weld, that more holes appear. If you have access to a sand-blaster, this would help to determine whether it is a worthwhile endeavour to repair it. If you intend to use it on the beach, regardless of hot whether, there is bound to be moisture and salt which are a deadly mixture in promoting rust so good paint work will be vital. There are lots of treatments available for prepping the metal similar to the effects of galvanising. You probably already know this...

In terms of the heater, why not just leave it? Removing it will change how much liquid is in the cooling system and may have an adverse effect on its effectiveness. I'm not entirely sure to be honest, but you are right in thinking it could be bypassed back. Alternatively, just close the valve from directing water to the heater either by removing the cable or just by moving the leaver in the cab. You will find that most heat in these travels through the bulkhead from the engine rather than the pretty useless heater. These serve little purpose than to just about clear the screen after what always seems and age of running! Even without an operational heater, you will still get hot in the cab. A better solution would be to leave the heater, just in case, but to get good at removing the roof. Everyone enjoys a soft-top in the sun...

Keep us up to date on your progress. Good luck and enjoy!

[David Sparkes]

OK, let's start with the simplest ones.

You have told us you are in New York, which is great, but whichever forum you go to (more on that later) it will help if you go to your profile on that forum and put your location there. That way it will always appear beneath your name so readers are reminded every time they read your posts. It minimises (but does not eliminate) the well meaning but sometimes irritating responses like 'just nip into Wickes, or Halfords', or some other UK store, which is not that helpful to you.

Next, the heater.

When these vehicles were new, the heater was an extra cost optional extra. The engine (assuming 2.25) is designed to run without the heater (which is one reason it doesn't work too well, especially when old and full of rubbish). So, the visually neatest solution is to remove the pipe stub end and heater tap and insert blanking plugs, just as the manufacturer presented it when no heater was ordered. However, this means getting the 3/8" plugs, threaded BSP (British Standard Pipe). In the UK these are readily available from any plumbers merchants. Might not be so easy in New York.

Nit-picking (or 'rivet counting' in the Series world), these look like plumbing plugs, with square heads, rather than automotive plugs, with hexagon heads.

Yes, the simplest immediate solution is to join the pipe stub to the heater tap with a piece of hose. Leave the tap open or closed, it doesn't matter.

I'm not pushing you in any particular direction, just giving you enough information for you to make the decision that suits you.

Bulkheads.

Do you weld steel, could it be a skill you would be prepared to develop, and invest cash in? Perhaps it's a skill that your son could develop?

I'm not that familiar with the situation in the USA; bulkheads may be more readily available over there (I'm thinking Pangolin 4x4, but there may be others, East Coast Rovers?).

In the UK there is a firm called Pegasus which is a 'hobby' business, who markets new bulkheads. His work is reckoned to be excellent, but timescales are very, very elastic. Think in terms of years, whatever the website says. Email comms can be difficult, it seems that if he can't tell you anything positive he would rather tell you nothing (being busy in the workshop, of course).

Ashtree is a firm that sells repaired bulkheads, but reports suggest they look repaired.

I have no direct experience with any of these firms.

There are plenty of UK people making replacement panel sections, such as bulkhead feet, footwells, etc, but you have to weld these in, and there can always be uncertainties about accurate fit.

Again, no direct experience.

It seems from reading UK forums, that anyone who is REALLY serious constructs a jig around the existing bulhead, while it is still fixed to the chassis and therefore moderately stable, and where the door, wing (fender) and tub (pickup loadbay) alignment can be seen as OK.

The bulkhead is then removed installed in the jig, and repaired.

There is one build I will reference where the owner is doing a VERY painstaking restoration of a version of the Series 2 used by the German border guard.

There will be a lot of the thread not directly relevant to you, but his painstaking approach extends to detailing his work in his posts.

He actually posts in two forums, the Ex-Military Land Rover Association (EMLRA), and the Series 2 Club (S2C). You don't have to be a member of either organisation to read the posts, although you may have to register.

For the most obvious reason, you may find regular reading of the S2C forum to be appropriate. There are some USA members who regularly contribute, although I don't recall if there are any close to you. They will be bound to give advice on when and where to source in the USA, and when and where to source in the UK (overseas shipping and communications being two areas where UK suppliers sometimes struggle to provide good service). I have seen them mention certain US based forums in a positive manner, but of course, tastes vary.

Good Luck.

PS.

One last point, in any 50 year old vehicle, and especially Land Rovers, the previous owner or mechanic could have done something non-standard. It is always helpful to include a photo of any area or feature you want to discuss, so that those with more experience can spot if your installation is non standard and tailor their advice appropriately.

Generally it helps to store your photos in some sort of hosting service (I use Dropbox), as not every Forum accepts files straight from your computer. S2C, in particular, will accept direct files as attachements, but then deletes them after about 12 months 'to save on Server space'. The result is frustrating posts that rely on a picture that has been 'Removed by Admin'.

This forum is better run than that, accepting files from both hosting services and directly, without deleting them.

D

[Snagger]

Congratulations.

East Coast Rovers would probably be your closest source for parts and advice, but some of the UK suppliers will ship parts. I don't know if the shipping charges would outweigh any savings from sourcing within the UK.

The heaters are much more effective than people give them credit for if in good order. A good soak in caustic soda to remove internal scale and external rubbish helps a lot (along with clearing out the pipes and hoses). It's worth retaining - a summer toy invariably gets used in winter when the normal car is in the garage or otherwise unavailable, and a LR is useful in the snow. A few minor tweaks like adding a fume curtain behind the front seats to keep the warm air in the front, a little carpet to improve acoustic and thermal insulation, and making sure the doors are properly adjusted and the seals in good order helps a lot in winter.

[CCbullet]

Wow...thanks for the quick feedback, everyone!

Hi, glad to hear someone else is on the road, so to speak, with another one. Any pics? Out of curiosity, is this your first?

You seem aware that the bulkhead is a common problem with these. New, galvanised replacements are available....

If you intend to use it on the beach, regardless of hot whether, there is bound to be moisture and salt which are a deadly mixture in promoting rust so good paint work will be vital. There are lots of treatments available for prepping the metal similar to the effects of galvanising. You probably already know this...

In terms of the heater, why not just leave it?

Keep us up to date on your progress. Good luck and enjoy!

This is my first. I've been itching for a hands on project. I am (and grew up) generally pretty handy, but I've been sitting at a desk all day for 15 years. I haven't done any real automotive work, so this will be a learning experience for me and my 12 yo son (and the girls if they want to join in...but doesn't seem likely). A little more detail on the project - some of which I just learned from internet sleuthing and finding someone who knew the old owner...

• I'll post some pics soon. At work right now, so I'll post one of these upcoming evenings.
• It (he? she?) hasn't run since probably early 2000s. It sat on a lot in Florida for a long time.
• Was recently purchased by a rover enthusiast in NY, who has a nice early 80s 110. He had plans to restore, but needed to sell to raise $$.
• Frame and body are in great shape (as far as I can tell), but the bulkhead is rotten. Prior owner's and my own assessment is that it is unrepairable...so I came into this with my eyes open...no surprises or trickery from the seller. I've talked to some of the people in the US (Pangolin, Blue Ridge...but haven't talked to East Coast Rovers yet). I have a lead on one actually in northern NY, but it will require some repair. In the UK, it looks like Pegasus has a solid offering of newly stamped bulkheads. I kind of like that option, but will be expensive.
• I mentioned the beach wagon idea above. I plan to move my family to Hawaii in the next few years...sick of sitting at a desk, and don't want to wait until I am retired to start living out our island dream. So my vision for this project is to keep it topless, water/sand proof it as much as I can (maybe Line-X the tub, marine audio system, etc), and it'll be our occasional casual driver to the beach or into town to show it off.

OK, let's start with the simplest ones.

You have told us you are in New York, which is great, but whichever forum you go to (more on that later) it will help if you go to your profile on that forum and put your location there.

Next, the heater. When these vehicles were new, the heater was an extra cost optional extra. The engine (assuming 2.25) is designed to run without the heater (which is one reason it doesn't work too well, especially when old and full of rubbish). So, the visually neatest solution is to remove the pipe stub end and heater tap and insert blanking plugs, just as the manufacturer presented it when no heater was ordered. However, this means getting the 3/8" plugs, threaded BSP (British Standard Pipe). In the UK these are readily available from any plumbers merchants. Might not be so easy in New York.

Bulkheads. In the UK there is a firm called Pegasus which is a 'hobby' business, who markets new bulkheads. His work is reckoned to be excellent, but timescales are very, very elastic. Ashtree is a firm that sells repaired bulkheads, but reports suggest they look repaired.

...anyone who is REALLY serious constructs a jig around the existing bulhead, while it is still fixed to the chassis and therefore moderately stable, and where the door, wing (fender) and tub (pickup loadbay) alignment can be seen as OK.

PS.One last point, in any 50 year old vehicle, and especially Land Rovers, the previous owner or mechanic could have done something non-standard. It is always helpful to include a photo of any area or feature you want to discuss, so that those with more experience can spot if your installation is non standard and tailor their advice appropriately.

• Updated profile...thanks for the tip
• The heater, like the bulkhead, was pretty rotten. Kind of a moot point to keep it, because I ripped it out last night! Cut the hoses, cut the cable, pulled it completely out...it was full of rubbish. So, I suppose I will look into finding those plugs.
• One of the US firms I talked to yesterday didn't hear good things about Ashtree. As mentioned above, Pegasus looks like a good option, so I'll try to track them down.
• RE: a jig around the bulkhead...my boy and I have actually started removing all the body panels, so I may be in a position to completely remove the bulkhead soon, and have a good look at the frame/chassis.
• Re: the prior owners...this is a key point. Right now, I need to figure out if anything was done to change it from pos to neg earth. The most recent owner hooked up a new battery the "normal" (i.e. modern) way - he only owned this for a few months, so I asked him about the polarity, and he realized he never even gave it a thought (I guess because his 110 is a 1980s model he didn't think about positive earth). The battery cable to ground is currently red, which points to a positive earth set up...so the prior owner may have had it flowing the wrong way.

Congratulations.

East Coast Rovers would probably be your closest source for parts and advice, but some of the UK suppliers will ship parts. I don't know if the shipping charges would outweigh any savings from sourcing within the UK.

The heaters are much more effective than people give them credit for if in good order. A good soak in caustic soda to remove internal scale and external rubbish helps a lot (along with clearing out the pipes and hoses). It's worth retaining - a summer toy invariably gets used in winter when the normal car is in the garage or otherwise unavailable, and a LR is useful in the snow. A few minor tweaks like adding a fume curtain behind the front seats to keep the warm air in the front, a little carpet to improve acoustic and thermal insulation, and making sure the doors are properly adjusted and the seals in good order helps a lot in winter.

• Will check out ECR.
• Moot point on the heater...already out. But thanks anyway!

Thanks again everyone...I'll post more updates and pics as I have time.

[CCbullet]

Congratulations.

East Coast Rovers would probably be your closest source for parts and advice, but some of the UK suppliers will ship parts. I don't know if the shipping charges would outweigh any savings from sourcing within the UK.

• Checked out ECR. Seems they have moved to only do Defenders lately. But it looks like they have produced a Series roll cage in the past, which I might consider if I plan to run topless full time.
• I may take your advice on the caustic soda, but for the radiator. Looks like there is a lot of scaling inside. Looks like I don't have a radiator overflow tank (looks like someone snipped the small hose from the radiator neck). Would that be a big deal?

[CCbullet]

Pics can be viewed here...will update as much as I can:

http://imgur.com/a/3L8DD

[Snagger]

N

• Checked out ECR. Seems they have moved to only do Defenders lately. But it looks like they have produced a Series roll cage in the past, which I might consider if I plan to run topless full time.
• I may take your advice on the caustic soda, but for the radiator. Looks like there is a lot of scaling inside. Looks like I don't have a radiator overflow tank (looks like someone snipped the small hose from the radiator neck). Would that be a big deal?

Not critical, as the water will fill the system as it expands, but it could conceivably cause air locks, so refitting a bottle would be wise. It needs about 2pt capacity and the hose to the rad neck needs to go to the bottom of the bottle so that it'' syphon the water back as it cools and contract.