Warm up wizard

[Cynic-al]

Could someone post up a screen dump of their warm up table, I'm getting confused :S

Thanks

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Wots up ??

Post up what you have / probs ??

[Cynic-al]

To give you the full, long and dull background I have an issue that has crept in over the last few months where after about 4 h running the engine will idle all day long but when you try to drive it bogs down, never stalls but won't rev or drive the car. At first it only happened on hills so I thought it wasn't picking up fuel. (No fuel gauge). I tried carrying extra fuel and brimming the tank but that didn't fix it. Now it does it on the flat or hills but only after a few hours of running.

It has a Chinese copy of a bosch 044 pump which has been making some nasty noises so I've ordered an electronic fuel pressure gauge so I can see what that's doing as it faults, still waiting for that to arrive.

Istruggle2gate11 suggested I checked temperatures incase a sensor had faulted so I plugged the laptop in whilst it was just sat in the garage cold but things looked ok so I discounted it.

I figured I'd service the engine whilst I'm waiting for the pressure gauge to arrive as it hasn't been done for about 3 years so did oil & filter, coolant, spark plugs, air filter and fuel filter. I started it up and left it running in the garage to warm up with the throttle wedged at maybe 1200rpm (no tacho either ).

I wandered back with the laptop about 5 minutes later and the coolant temp gauge was at about 1/3rd the way up and tuner studio was reporting 172 degF which panicked me at first as it was near the orange but when I worked it out it's only about 78 degC which doesn't seem out the way so it's probably just a scaling issue.

So I had a look at the warm up chart which is a gradually decreasing enrichment percentage as you would expect. The first thing that confused me is the scale of the temperature axis is temperature (%). Surely the units should be degF? Otherwise what is it a % of? The second question is the highest temperature on the chart was around 160 ish, after that the graph ends. So my second question is what happens when the temperature goes off the end? Does it stick at the last setting (100%) or does it interpolate the graph and continue to reduce the enrichment as the temperature rises?

Anyway tuner studio was moaning that it wanted to do an update so I left it doing that and came in, figured I'd get some information then look at it another night

[Cheesy]

That sounds a bit odd, I was just looking at it, mine has % enrichment on the Y axis and deg C on the X axis, but different firmware may have different input methods (MS2 extra) . There is a little grey dot at the top of the Y axis that opens a menu that lets you change the max and min of the axis.

I would be interested in knowing if it interpolates off the end of the entered data as well, I had assumed that it would drop to 0% after it went past the highest temperature point but this might not be the case.

[Cynic-al]

I'm wondering if either the pump is shot and losing pressure / flow as it gets hot or the pressure relief valve is sticking & the fuel isn't circulating & vaporising in the fuel rail as the heat builds in the engine bay which would also account for the change in pump tone. Putting the pressure gauge on should prove or disprove either of those.

I can't see that the warm up table is wrong as it's been running on these settings for a few years but I'd still like to understand the warm up table.incase the temp sensor is wandering.

[FridgeFreezer]

You mean this window?

In this case, the values are the amount of enrichment at that temperature - in between, MS will interpolate to make a smooth curve.

As with all enrichments in MS: 100% means no enrichment (multiply a number by 100% = no change).

[Cynic-al]

I think thats the megatune version? I use tuner studio but it's the same settings in a different window. What happens after 71 degrees? I assume it just stays at 100% as that would make sense. Also I assume that even if your 71degree enrichment was 110% it would go to 100% when it gets above 71 degrees?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

YUP !

[Cynic-al]

Thanks I will let you know what I find if I get to the bottom of it

[FridgeFreezer]

If it's something that it's "just started doing" with no change of the settings then I'd look closely at other things that have changed or gone faulty - like blocked filters, iffy sensors or cheap chinese fuel pumps...

[Cynic-al]

Fuel pump (or pressure regulator) is top of my list as both would explain the awful sound it makes which is why i've ordered the fuel pressure gauge so time will tell on that one. As I only use it once or twice a month and it takes so long to fault it makes diagnostics a pain so I've also got a genuine bosch 044 pump that I can take with me, but it would be nice to prove the other is fubar before taking it off. I wanted to be clear on the temperature sensor workings as someone else suggested to test it, I think it must be a standard Land Rover EFI part, I can't remember changing it when I wired the MS.

[Cynic-al]

I have these to play with;

The right window is warmup with the temperautre units in %? Meh!

[FridgeFreezer]

The right window is warmup with the temperautre units in %? Meh!

If you cross-reference the readouts etc. I think they've mis-labeled the bottom axis, the temp gauge shows ~80deg and the green line along the coolant temp range shows it also sat at 80 "%" where I reckon that's really 80 degF.

[Cynic-al]

I think so too but wanted to ask someone cleaverester!

[ian_s]

doesn't the ASE stuff stop happening after a set number of seconds? on your screenshot, it says ASE Total time, set to 17 seconds. i would assume after that it just reverts to the normal map?

[FridgeFreezer]

ASE is "After Start Enrichment" and is only active briefly just after the engine fires up.

Warmup Enrichment (WUE) is based on coolant temperature and is active from start to the point the coolant goes above the last value in the table. I can't remember if it re-activates if the coolant drops again or if it is a once-per-start affair.

[Cheesy]

I think so too but wanted to ask someone cleaverester!

In the MS2 extra code it has *C or *F instead of % in that window so I would also assume it is a typo. It seems a lot of the graphical tuning interface is directly driven by the code in the ECU.

I would be looking at the fuel pump and filters/pickup/tank vents and regulator, especially if it is making funny noises.

[Cynic-al]

Thanks for the info RE the units, nice to have it clarified

Well the pressure gauge arrived and I've fitted it tonight. One manual I've read says the pressure should be a constant 2.5 bar above the plenum, another says between 2.3 - 2.5 bar, so I guess they're saying the same thing in a round about way. Mine flickers between 1.9 & 2.2 bar depending on if your revving it etc. Not really a 100% indication to prove the pump or regulator but I havea pump so I'll swap that first and see what happens. That's assuming that the pressure gauge is accurate. Although it did come with a guarantee...

Not sure what a 'stepper motor opening ceremony' is but atleast it came with instructions telling me how to 'wier' it even if the colours in the instructions didn't match the product. ​

Still, atleast it fits in with my faux carbon fiber gauge pod and red bonnet pins aesthetically...

[Cynic-al]

Well had a play with it today with the new fuel pump. I didn't have the right fittings to put the check valve on so starting was a bit hit and miss but it had loads more power than it used to, fuel pressure was 2.4 bar ish at idle rather than the 2 that I was getting with the other pump and it ran all day...

Well... Until about 3pm when it decided that it was going to develop an intermittent fault where the ignition would randomly cut out. Maybe it's the ignition barrel or a bad joint? Ho hum onto the next problem!