[Anybody tried a Supeed Motor radiator?]

Ebay flagged this up to me today, obv because I'd done previous searches for radiators. Chinese, jumbled between radiators and exhausts, jumbled between 1yr and 2yr warranty - and even some pseudo science thrown in!. Somewhat indifferent looking welding .All pictures show radiator upside down - none right way up...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125145592635?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160727114228%26meid%3D27e4c900a7c44c3585a67631ddff53c4%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D125145592635%26itm%3D125145592635%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778%26brand%3DSupeedmotor&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

Maybe not, just wondered...

[RV8 engine mount position for a 1987 110]

Almost ready to put the engine and boxes back in, so just to show what I finally decided to do on the rear mounts. Just a couple of 4mm plates and the brackets shown previously cut down to get everything into (what I believe is) the correct position. 

Brackets not welded to the back plates yet, I'll get the engine and boxes in place to make doubly sure everything is good, and tack weld the rear mounts to the back plates. Then I'll get them out again to complete the welding, before bolting it all down.

Whaddayareckon?

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

Great - thanks for that!

Came across this guy talking about sorting out a Range Rover tank. He goes to a lot of trouble making up metal fuel pipes,

which prompts a number of questions. Sorry.

1. I'm sure the engine Donor Disco had plastic pipes? Have I remembered that right? I broke my own rules and junked them. Never throw anything away.

2. Does it actually need to be metal pipes, or is modern rubber/plastic pipe up to the pressure rating - I'm sure it exists, but is it a bad idea? I guess this is where...

On 7/2/2022 at 6:45 PM, dangerous doug said:

When you come to fitting fuel lines, avoid the eBay stainless braided lines. I have it front to back and it is not fit for purpose, the ends perish and mud gets trapped in the braid, it erodes, so you end up with a line of barbed wire running down the chassis rail.

Comes in.

3. Even if the supply line needs to be special, surely the plastic stuff will be fine for the return line?

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

Pumps arrived, so now I can see what:

On 7/5/2022 at 11:48 AM, FridgeFreezer said:

if you have to extend the pump for your backup tank, you need special fuel hose as regular fuel hose is only fuel-proof on the inside

means.

Pic below shows the original side tank fuel pick up - the fuel pump is about 4.1/2" short....

 

So It looks like I just need to undo the two screws and put an extension piece in the bracket, along with a longer piece of tubing and I'm in business? Haven't dismantled yet so not sure if that wiring is going to be long enough...

Any hints on what I'm going to be looking for by way of Special fuel hose? 

 

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

20l of soapy water and lashed into the back of my truck. Ball bearings from an old wheel bearing in the centre section where the fuel sender and supply pipe live to jizz things up a bit, as well as the nuts and bolts still generally floating around from the previous petrol wash out. I'll drive around with it for a few days and de-sludge as well as I can, and then swap for 20l of white vinegar for a week or so.

Unless anybody thinks that's a bad idea...

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

6 minutes ago, deep said:

Toothpaste is a very fine grinding paste

Hey - I once knew that! Thanks for the reminder. However, I'm going to go for the Range Rover in-tank pump approach

Probably...

But a good tip for anybody suffering that problem

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

5 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

a properly seated cork seal seems to be perfectly happy with E10

Great! Thanks for that

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

Tanks all dismantled and I find both of the senders are u/s. Also cork seals - not sure what E10 is going to do to those. A quick look inside the main tank....

 

Between other jobs I put a couple of pounds of clean nuts and bolts in there and a couple of litres of old petrol from the donor Disco and strung it up

 

But couldn't really get it moving enough to get a good old slosh going. Somebody has done this before - tips and tricks welcome!

I find people on YouTube talking about filling it up with white vinegar and leaving for a week - anybody tried that? Never had much success with vinegar in the past....

[About to do a complete fluids change on Defender, Oil brand recommendations needed]

Many thanks - it's on order...

[About to do a complete fluids change on Defender, Oil brand recommendations needed]

I've got my R380 and Lt230 pretty much back together and ready to hang up at all possible angles to check for leaks, so attention turns to oils. 

For the R380 Smith and Allan MTF94 seems to get the thumbs up, but what about the LT230? Is that going to be the same?

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

35 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Bosch/Walbro-type pumps that were everywhere were always quoted as 255lph,

Cool. So if we use 200lph and the side tank is 50l that would take 15 minutes to transfer - sounds about right.

Anyway, I'll get all the senders and pipework off of the tanks and get a camera inside to check out, and report back on which way I go and how it works out.

More questions on the pipework & plumbing looming...

Thanks all!

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

The side tank definitely has a sender for a low level warning light. There was a relay that switched the fuel level signal to the gauge and another for the low level light when you operated the mechanical tank selection lever. Past tense because I've ripped all the wiring out. For one I'm going 12 volt, and for two the fuel gauge/light never worked even though I could hear the relays clicking. The wiring was in an appalling state. Further investigations when I strip the tanks down for scrubbing out and renewing the rubber seals. Then I can check out the senders and see what's what.

Back to the tank, what's that blanked off pipe for - just ahead of the filler pipe? Any reason I can't use that to receive fuel pumped from the side tank into main? Just to save you scrolling back up:

On 7/2/2022 at 2:34 PM, Phill S said:

 

14 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I reckon a relay connected to the fuel warning light is as elegant a solution as you're going to get!

Nah. The truck will also be used by the loved one for her own expeditions with her crazy mates. It needs to be idiot proof so there can't be any question that she could activate the transfer system when there's not enough space in the main tank. When I say idiot proof I mean idiot proof. Not my final decision, but it's currently shaping up as 3 modes of operation on a switch. And a big red light that shows that the fuel transfer pump is operating. Or at least has power being supplied to it.

1. Off. System disabled

2. Manual. Driver/operator switches the transfer pump on, pump (and big red light) switches off when it sees low fuel level signal in the side tank

3. Auto. System switches on (and locks on) when it sees a low level signal from the main tank. Otherwise the same as 2.

Might sound over-complicated but it's only a few relays and a bit of wire. Of course it relies on the integrity of the low fuel level signals and it is safety critical - don't want to be driving along spilling petrol out of the filler because it's gone wrong and is overfilling/pressurising the main tank. Hence the big red light, And I'd probably want a second fuel gauge and low level light for the side tank to monitor what's going on. In engineering terms it's a simplex system with safety implications - it needs to be monitored when in operation. I've also assumed that when pumping fuel into the main tank the displaced air can get out at the same rate...

One of the reasons I was interested in pump flow rate was to get a handle on how long it would take to transfer the contents of the side tank into the main tank. Anybody have any numbers on that?

Final solution pending, but I'm sure somebody will have done all this before?

 

Then again, maybe simpler to implement as two separately pumped tanks with eclectically operated valves to control the fuel supply and return. Dunno

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

9 hours ago, Hybrid_From_Hell said:

Tins my 5.2 at 60 psi in the rail for the big injectors absolutely fine 

whizzy fuel pumps can often just be a big issue with rover v8s the classic pump is more than good enough 

Ok - thanks for that, I'll be going with a PRC8318  for sure then. 

 

12 hours ago, smallfry said:

I always used the PRC8318 pump too (early RRC 3.5 EFI) and a decent inline metal cased filter. Never had any running problems that I can recall.

You can alter it for tank depth by shortening or lengthening the drop bracket and hose if required.

There IS a similar looking one, but that is low pressure for carburettor engines, in 90/110s which is obviously no use to you.

 

Great - I have that little lot in the mix - thanks

 

9 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I had an unknown brand of in-tank EFI pump die, admittedly after about 30,000 miles and a lot of time parked up doing nothing, got a (I think) Nige-supplied Bearmach one in there now so we'll see how that fares. Running a 4.6 no problem at all.

As above - thanks. Something inside me is squirming though at the mention of Bearmach. I'll go and find a bullet to bite....

 

So (possibly?) my last question on pumps. I have a twin tank system, mechanically operated. Main tank and side tank under the drivers seat The taps always weeped a little in the original diesel config, and just a little concerned about use of that with the upcoming switch to petrol. And E10 at that. Now, with these pumps at around £30 each (ex vat and delivery) I could put one in each tank with electrically managed valves to look after the return flow. I'd rather not have those valves though - I do try to keep things as simple as possible and there's another thing to go wrong/leak. 

The thought occurs to fit a PRC8318 pump in each tank, main tank to filter to injector rail. And then reserve tank to to transfer its contents to the main tank when needed. I could even switch it off automatically when the low fuel light comes on on that tank. I have to have a pump for the reserve tank anyway and these PRC8318 's are cheaper than most low pressure pumps I've looked at. Plus if the pump in the main tank dies when I'm far from home I'm carrying a spare in the reserve tank and can do a roadside swap. 

Finally the question! Is a PRC8318  happy to pump in this way, when it's not delivering at pressure. Or is that going to kill it?

 

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

3 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

Get the best one available

Ok - I'll shelve the tank replacement plans for the time being and give the one I have some tlc to keep it going for the time being. Give my bank account a chance to recover...

So on the PRC8318 pump front I find pics that look like this:

Looks feasible when I look at the tank. Crazy money for an original Land Rover one but Bearmach, Britpart or Allmakes in the £30-£35 range. I generally try to avoid anything by any of them, but haven't been able to turn up any alternatives. Any experience on those? Maybe it's just the same factory churning them out in China and then they get rebadged

 

40 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

I’ve sat down now so can reply properly, the rrc efi pump is rated to 120psi(from memory) I’m not 100% sure on the flow rate but I’ve not had starvation issues running my v8 with the Thor injectors at 52psi. If you get a decent fuel pressure regulator you’ll be able to see what’s what. I have a turbo smart one with a gauge and it keeps the fuel pressure steady.

That sounds good...

 

40 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

When you come to fitting fuel lines...

Exactly where I was going next. And couplings. I'll do a little more homework on what you say before talking to the llama folks. So I can try to appear like I know what I'm talking about, but thanks for the tip on the eBay specials, I'll look at those to see what they look like.

Again, thanks Doug - this is really helpful...

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

Well I'm jiggered - that'll teach me to think I know what I'm talking about. Here's my main tank:

5 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

you want pn: PRC8318P

Thanks for the part number - you're a gent sir.

And that's just going to go in the top there? So would it be Bearmach, Britpart or Allmakes? We're in the £30-£35 range so ...

4 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

you have two options.... under seat tank or rear mount

 

I have rear and side tanks, so being unexpectedly affordable I'm not sure whether to put one in each tank? Obv I would then need electrical valves to control the return flow. Or better to have a pump only in the rear tank only and use the side tank to transfer fuel into the main when needed? That would be simpler and what I'd planned originally. 

Apparently I have to go out now, so will look into PRC8318 more deeply later. Many thanks for your help guys

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

Thanks for that Doug - useful information. I believe the Range Rover fuel pump is the same as the 3.9 Disco 1 pump shown above? Sadly that's not going to bolt into my 2.5NA tank....

So having read the thread I referenced above, I'm putting the TD5 plastic tank into the more than I want to do at this stage category. I'll patch up the tank I have and keep an eye on it for leaks, and think about it again at that point. Living in a coastal area there's always a lot of salt around. Vehicles rot fast down here.

So next step in my thinking is about fuel pumps. I understand in keeping my original tank I'll need a lift pump and a fuel injection pressure pump. My first venture into petrol fuel injection so haven't got a clue. What sort of spec do I need for the injection pump in terms of delivery pressure and flow rate? I don't know how manufacturers specify pumps, but I would imagine that delivery rate drops with pressure for a given pump? 

I'd be interested to know what people have been using, makes and models...

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

12 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

TD5 defender tank

Ok thanks. So that leads me here:

So I'll just take some time to digest that little lot...

[3.9 V8 EFi into 1987 110 Diesel - fuel system]

I'm sure I'll have a number of questions on this, but I'll start up the back. I dropped the fuel tanks for inspection, also chassis cleaning and painting. The side tank looks fine but the rear tank is starting to go at the seams...

 

Looks better in this pic than in real life - fair amount of corrosion going on in there. Or am I worrying unnecessarily? Maybe they just look like that. No sign of leaking, would probably last a few years yet.

To feed the V8 EFi, I'm going to need a lift pump and a high pressure pump, straightforward enough on those but money to be spent...

 

Now, from the Donor Disco 1 I have this:

 

And I can confirm the Disco tank will not go into my 110. Even if I push very hard. I believe there is a plastic tank that will fit into my truck and accept the pump/sender shown above - anybody able to advise what that is? Money to be spent, but maybe a better long-term solution?

So I'm currently anguishing over whether to stick with the standard metal tank with suitable pumps, or go plastic now and fit the Disco pump. Any downsides on this option? What would you do?

[1997 3.9 V8 EFi Refresh]

Lots been going on with my truck, but over the past few days I've begun the building up of the main block. Crankshaft shells, big ends, camshaft bearings and rings all replaced. Standard camshaft I'm afraid - I'm now officially on a budget. Camshaft from Turner Engineering, all the rest from EAC:

 

More coming as and when...

[Land Rover defender 3.9 v8 radiator with oil cooler]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:43 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

I'd look at running a stock V8 rad

Is that the ESR203 radiator? I'd be interested to know how thick yours is. The only V8 rad description I could find in terms of dimensions is here:

https://www.alutec.co.uk/?page=search&stype=completes&sby=sbp&spartno=10221&comps_manu=&comps_model=Defender++110&comps_spec=2.5+TDi+200+Hardtop&comps_from=09%2F90&comps_to=12%2F94

...which gives 47mm which seems a bit skinny. They also give a pic of the guts of the oil cooler:

 

Which is interesting.

Got a nasty shock the other day when I called my local radiator re-core outfit - my 19J radiator shown above would come out at £600 plus VAT, so that's not going to happen.

So what rad to go for? The only affordable all metal (or looks like it might be in the pics) ESR203 V8 job I can find is from Britpart. Anybody have any suggestions for a good quality unit at a reasonable price? 

[Land Rover defender 3.9 v8 radiator with oil cooler]

I've recently dismantled a 1997 Disco 1 with 3.9 V8 and auto box. The radiator has provision for cooling of the engine oil and auto box, the cooling for that continued on into a bog brush type cooler. I'd very interested to know what exactly is inside that radiator. The engine is going into my 1987 110 with manual box, and I'm planning to use the 19J radiator with oil cooler built in:

 

The 19J radiator with oil cooler is (I believe) NTC6168 and is the one to the left in the pic. This is about the same thickness as the Disco 1 rad. To the right is the one that came out of my 2.5 NA diesel, and I believe this is ESR79. The 19J one is about half as thick again. My original one isn't going to do the job!

I'll be very interested to know which way you go...

 

 

[Land Rover defender 3.9 v8 radiator with oil cooler]

I've been planning to fit the 19J rad with integral oil cooler. Its a relatively thick unit...

[RV8 engine mount position for a 1987 110]

Ok - thanks both. I suspect I'll be going quiet on this one for a short time while I finish reassembling the LT230 and engine....

...and there's another dumb question to ask

[RV8 engine mount position for a 1987 110]

I'm probably in the right ballpark then? I've got a little bit of freedom up and down on where I set the transmission chassis mounts, and I jacked the gearbox up as high as I could to give clearance under the seatbox to measure the angle the engine was sitting at in the pics shown above, but the angle the front propshaft will join the front axle looks pretty awful to my eye. But then there's no great weight in the engine and transmission at the moment, and I'll be putting on the lighter front springs from the donor Disco 1 as well. So hopefully it will end up looking a little less worrying...

[RV8 engine mount position for a 1987 110]

6 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

RV8s don't sit level in in land rovers, for that reason

So would you say it's looking about right, or should it be nose down?