Chicken Drumstick

Thanks. All sounds like good advice I think what I need to do is go off and start collecting all the items I think I'll need to get to a rolling chassis and maybe sketch out a few more accurate designs and plans to work from. I've also been having a think about the comments concerning it being noise heavy under braking and descents. I was thinking that what you'd want to do would be set the brake bias to axles 2 & 3, with lesser braking force on axles 1 & 4. Surely this would stop it wanting to tip forward as much, yet still provide stability under braking on the road?

lol, very true. Just probably straighter.... But I do take everyone's points though. but for how much! Think I'd quite like the satisfaction of doing it myself too.

Thanks for the link.

Cheers. Actually that's a SS300 I think it's a bit different to an Esarco with Dana axles and Ford engines and transmissions. That said I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just have little or no idea where or how I could fab up an entire chassis from scratch of this scale, my worry would be needing to build a jig first to make sure it's all the right dimensions and angles. My thinking was, if I had a 130 chassis as an entire vehicle, the engine would be in (although I'd look at changing it to a Tdi, but probably after it was running). So by cutting it up, it would have some of the work done already. And would at least be straight and the right widths and such. I could just fab up some wooden rails to line the wheels up with to make sure they were laterally located correctly. That said, this is all good info and exactly why I thought about posting it here. If I was to fab an entire chassis, do you have any pointers?

Just a thought on the chassis front again. But what do you think of taking a 127/130 chassis and chopping it where it starts to dip down both, front and rear. Then simply flip the middle section over, box it and weld it all back together? Sort of something like this:

Hi Simon. Thanks for your comments. Maybe I can answer some of the other questions posted earlier. Power I'd probably be looking at a tweaked 200Tdi, it's a stout easily available motor and I'd have thought 130-150hp would realistically be enough, as the production H.U.G.O. only used a 110hp Perkins and the original Esarco's a 150hp V8. In terms of layout and design, I think I'd probably stick very closely to the Esarco. For several reasons: -availability of parts -price of parts -maintainability of the parts, custom bits are fine, but pricey to repair/replace in years to come -it works, which would hopefully keep my R&D to a moderate level for a home build amateur. I do very much like you idea of front twin axle steer. I suppose feasibly you could have axles 1 and 2 steering and axle 4 steering the opposite direction with an override to prevent it's operation at highway speeds?? That way it'd be more stable on road and offer very good maneuverability off road. Taking your train of thought further with the middle axles. I was thinking off road you'd want axles 1 and 4 to have more droop than the middle two, as when you crest a ridge it would be either the front or the rear that would lift off the ground. On the flip side, the ramp over would benefit from allowing axles 2 & 3 more upwards travel than the others? --Does this make sense to you and do you agree? Lastly, I'm very glad I posted this as you have all given me great food for thought and some fantastic info and ideas. Mostly with regards to the chassis, I think it would be better to build one from scratch. Are you able to give me any pointers on where I could source the material required to do this? I know I can get smaller sections locally, but some box section suitable for an entire 200" or so chassis is rather more daunting.

Pics would be great cheers. Where abouts are you in the country? If the owner didn't mind I've love to pop over and have a look at one to see some of the detail not always shown in photos. Thanks.

Cheer Simon, some very valid points and a your right about the chassis shape, I hadn't thought of that. Guess that makes a mocker of my mocks: Not sure if this is more hard work than not. But if I used a Tdi Discovery as a 2nd donor vehicle, I wonder if I cut the chassis sections out of the Disco where the axles/springs locate and then cut the 127 chassis and insert these. That way you'd only have to box and plate the joins (same as making an 88 or 80" coiler) rather than having to construct an entire chassis from scratch?

That is the main inspiration. Not sure if any of you guys will remember this or not. But back in the 80's there was a TV program called Driving Force. Sterling Moss and Murry Walker presented on various years. In I think 1988 or 89 their were at St Helier on Jersey and had an 8x8 and a 6x6 Esarco. I've wanted one ever since, but never seen one for sale. Doing some more active research into them I got to wondering if it would be possible to build one instead as they used a lot of Land Rover bits. But maybe you are right about the chassis. Will have to do a bit more investigating.

Engine and gearbox would remain in stock locations. It'd be a forward control a bit like a 101. So you'd sort of sit on top and slightly in front of the engine. Suspect my cut & paste pic would need the cab moving forward a tad to reflect this better. Here's the inspiration behind the idea. This is a H.U.G.O. which is a development of an Esarco. As you can see it's got rather a lot of Landy bits on it. The engine would be under an access panel. It would mean turning the cab into a 4 seater losing the middle seat. But I'd be fine with that. I'd like to try and keep it looking a little more Land Rover at the front though, more Series IIb FC. And use Defender radiator panel, grill and lights. The drivetrain would look something like this: Engine and gearbox and first transfer case in stock locations. Keep the front axle all stock. And the rear most axle in the same place, although I'd run radius arms at the rear and a steering box on what would have been an old front axle. Move the existing axle to position 3 and axle 2 would be what would have been the rear axle from your second donor vehicle. From the PTO on the first transfer box power a 2nd transfer box, which in turn powers axles 2 and 4. I was thinking you'd simply weld some upper spring perches in place for axles 2 and 3 and then run a turret mounted shock to keep it simple and easy. Maybe something like a Pro Comp +2" shock and then some 110 +1" lift spings all round and dislocation cones on each of the 8 turrets. You could also hook up the brakes on all the axles, although I wonder if a bigger servo might be needed. I know it seems like a little OTT, but I just can't help thinking... "it's all Land Rover bits, just bolt them in together in a slightly different order to normal". Should it work you'd have a vehicle not much longer than a 110, with a tight turning circle. Great visibility, good load and towing ability and I suspect something that would be more gentle on the weak Rover alxes and diffs. 8x8 traction means it should go well of road and possibly even articulate quite well with extended shocks and suitable springs.

Following up on my PTO thread. This is the idea I've been mulling over. Please note this isn't the final solution, just the idea in motion. Take one 127 or 130 Land Rover. Remove the body. And add two extra axles. What I'd thought of was using a front axle complete with radius arms at the rear and a 2nd steering box. This way you could have a rear steer axle too. I thought of keep the rear most axle in the stock location to preserve the 127" wheelbase. Then fit the other axles at equal distances between. Lots of details to work through still. But I'd hope to have something that maybe looked a little like this: Any of you guys SVA/IVA experts? I guess it looks radical, but essentially it's not all that different from the original vehicle(assuming it works), i.e. -it would still be a 127" wheelbase double cab pickup -the steering linkages would remain -The gearbox would remain -the axles would remain -even the chassis would remain, with only additions rather than being hacked up Anyhow, I know it's a wild idea, just thought I share my ramblings.

Curious, but what is the LT95 transfer box like? Does it operate similar to an LT230 with a lockable diff?

Cheers. Presume you mean LT95 for the 101/RR?

Thanks. So to get the dog clutch is there a part I can buy easily, a Land Rover part? Funny you should mention Esarco, as that is exactly the reason I was posting this in the first place I was wondering the feasibility of buying a 127 or 130 Land Rover, removing the body, and getting hold of a couple more axles and a 2nd LT230. To me it seems a fairly simply job of then doing some calculations and lining it all up to produce a rolling chassis looking a little like this: I was then thinking of using a 110 HiCap rear pickup bed and using the 127/130 double cab, but moving the entire cab forward so the bulk head was over the front of the front wheels and fab up some front body work using other land bits (maybe Series IIa/IIb looking) and rig up the steering and pedals in a similar fashion to a 101. It wouldn't quite be an Esarco, just a vehicle built in the image of. Evidently there's a great deal more to it than just this. But I was curious as to if it was possible.

Hi. Not sure exactly where to start. But I'm hoping someone could explain how PTO's work a bit in general and specifically with the LT230 transfer box. I presume you can run a PTO from a LT230?? I guess what I'd like to know is, how do you go about using it? And how does it work? I've read that in theory you could use the PTO to drive another axle or as an input to another LT230. I'm thinking along the lines of how a 6x6 or even an 8x8 vehicle could be propelled. Is the PTO rpm the same as the transfer box input rpm?? Thanks for your help.

Thanks. Any idea where I might find some long soft springs that I could maybe use on a retained spring setup using some +5 RC shocks?

I can see that. However don't places like llama4x4 sell longer shocks for stock mounts too? Any idea how much extra you get by mounting with a turret? Also is there anything to do with the arc radius or twist in the top mount. Didn't Devon 4x4 sell some kind of swivel top shock mount, presume changing the shock location would solve this? Do you think there are any downsides to locating the shocks like this?

Hi, Just wondering if someone can shed some light or technical opinion on this. I've recently returned from the ALRC Nationals and I noticed a lot of the triallers (CCV's mostly) mount the rear shock using a turret, i.e. exactly the same as the front suspension shock location. I presume this isn't done as standard for packaging reasons and lack of clearance above the upper spring perch. But what actual advantage does this offer over having the shock mounted in the stock location? e.g. Rear shock located like this:

Cheers. either of you guys know where you can buy these and what sort of money they are? Thanks.

Is it possible/easy to swap a TD4 into a 1.8i Freelander? Anyone know of this being done before and can point me at some further reading...? Cheers.

I suspect a great idea in principle, but the TDI is coming out of my Disco I've just re-tired.....

Kinda curious, but how much use and benefit do you guys get from running lockers? I know the principle with how they work and what they do, and in rock crawling I can see the gain fully. But I'm curious as to how much real world benefit they make for off roading in the UK? I'm not disputing, just more curious. Do you often find that you simply would have got stuck without lockers or not been able to proceed? Cheers.

Cheers for the replies. Might have a re-think on the project. As for the Standee Bus class, it makes me wonder. I'm lead to believe the Series III was used at a shooting ground of some kind, I wonder if it was used to transport shooters in the back while standing, so it makes me think that maybe they were forced to change the body type to bus....

Hi, hoping you can help. I'm trying to rebuild a Series III I bought a number of years ago (which has sat at a farm since then). It's a 2.25 diesel with a pick-up cab. Problem is, I want to fit a 200TDI. How should I go about filling this out on the log book? The Direct Gov website says I need "written evidence" but I want to do the conversion myself, so won't have anything written. Is it easier to just put a new engine number down instead? My 2nd bigger problem is looking over the log book, it says D.3 Body type STANDEE BUS I'm not even sure what one of these is, but its definitely an 88" pickup truck cab as it stands now. Should I worry about this, leave it or change it to something else, or am I just making things difficult for my self? Thanks in advance.

Hi, I've got a 200TDI. And I was wondering if the breather pipe that goes from the side of the engine to the air intake pipe can be disconnected and a to atmosphere filter used instead? I ask as it seems to blow a fair bit of oil through there, which in turn goes thru the turbo and intercooler. This is the pipe in question: And I was thinking I might be able to fit one of these to it somehow instead of directing it back into the air intake? Thanks.