Snagger

A friend of mine has a Q-plate Lightweight because of its Designa coil spring chassis, the suspension and Wolf axles. He would far prefer the cost and agro of the IVA than the heartbreak of losing the vehicle after doing a concourse level of work on it. Some people have good reasons to try to hang onto original VINs, like me - my 109 is tax exempt,being from 1972, so that's why I can't modify the transmission; I need to keep it and the leaf spring suspension. I'd like to change the transmission to something tougher and quieter, and already bought a BW transfer box from Bowie so I can look into the option more when I return to the UK in the future, but I suspect that going IVA will be very expensive as I expect them to ramp up road tax costs on private diesel vehicles, especially those with new registrations.

I thought he was talking about fixing his HiCap, re-attching a rear 1/4 chassis, which counts as a rebuild, not a radically altered vehicle. Just changing the springs wouldn't change the status of the suspension, based on the advice I was given by DVLA ten years ago (that may have changed too now), but reckon changing the radius and trailing arms for cranked and caster corrected items could, and they should be changed if lifting the vehicle as simply fitting long springs screws up the bushes and makes the vehicle far less dynamically stable because of the change in steering geometry.

Ozzy, you have to read the other posts if you want to engage in the conversation! As I said, the points system has been dropped at some point in the last decade (was news to me), so now you just need to retain any two of the listed mechanical assemblies in addition to the repaired chassis.

Hybrids are grossly inefficient, lugging two engines, transmissions and energy sources. That means that petrol mpg is worsened and it has higher electrical consumption when driving on electrical power only, needing more recharging and therefore adding to power station emissions. They should be banned - they are the most environmentally damaging cars on the road and are marketed solely as being green. The companies producing them should be facing higher fines then VW as their fraud is even more extreme than the VW test cheating. All electric or all I/C, chose one or the other; both have their merits, but hybrids take the worst of both worlds and exacerbate them by having underpowered engines dragging excess weight.

You'd be better off doing it properly and buying the extended arms with standard heads for the MoD TUL/TUM XD (Wolf) Defenders - they had an extended arm on one side to account for the side stored spare wheel. The mirrors are not sided, so fit two of them and you'd be done.

Having read the links on page 2 of the thread, the rules have changed a little in the ten years since I did mine, and had changed several times before that. There are no more points; you need to use the unaltered original chassis or a brand new one of the same spec, and just any two of the major assemblies. You are allowed to repair the chassis, just like on a normal annual basis. Replacement chassis sections would be permitted if they're of the same type, including half chassis (even if they quarrelled that, the permission for a completely new chassis of same spec would undermine any argument). I can't see any difference of whether you fabricate the parts or buy them complete from a manufacturer. Cutting down a RR chassis to make a hybrid, even using all of the RR's original assemblies (not just two of them) would disqualify the old VIN, which is nonsensical because it is clearly the same vehicle save for the body, but those are the rules. As for using chassis parts from another vehicle, if you mean new parts for another model, then presumably no because you're changing the spec, and if you mean from same model by used, then almost certainly no because the chassis is the one component with special rules that it mustn't go to another vehicle without VIC and IVA checks. You certainly can't use a whole second hand chassis without inspections and a lot of paperwork, and using sections would, if known about, probably lead to the same application of rules. Practical policing of the latter type of sectional repair, though, is impossible. Interestingly, the new rules DO now permit you to construct a new build vehicle out of period parts over 25 years of age and get a period registration under section 10, subject to inspection and certification by an approved club representative.

You must do, because it is being assessed as a new vehicle. But you won't get a VIN or reg based on the donor vehicle's original production date. That means that some people would lose "historic vehicle" status with tax implications that brings, and some would need to meet tougher emissions and safety standards.

I agree, Paul. I think there is a lot to be said for common sense in all this. Apply that and the authorities won't be concerned, but blatently commit fraud by putting an old VIN on a newer vehicle (SII on Defender, for a common example, or early Def VIN on a late Def vehicle to avoid the high TDCI taxes or US import restrictions), or using an old VIN on a newbuild oldspec vehicle (ie a SII or SIII made of correct spec parts but a vehicle that hadn't previously existed) and you could rightly come a cropper.

Arguably true, but if you speak to the DVLA, they will tell you that the rules apply to the dimensions and structure of the chassis, not bracketry, or at least that is what they told me ten years ago. That suggests that moving a cross member to accommodate Defender steering or a longer transmission may be acceptable too. What they don't accept is a change in suspension mountings, wheel base or overall dimensions, though as previously mentioned, they don't seem concerned by bobtails. I didn't ask about this bracket, but I did ask about engine mounts before I ordered the new chassis, and that was the guidance they gave me. I think their view is that if you're not chopping lumps off the chassis, then it is not being significantly altered. The same would apply to roll cage mounts or mountings for extra suspension dampers. Even drilling holes to fit a Defender long range auxilliary fuel tank or water tank could be viewed in that way but is not.

I agree, because there is no reason to believe the vehicle isn't completely original, with just a little bit cut off. I have never heard of a bobtail being sent for IVA or the owner being in hot water, presumably because the DVLA can see the issue for what it is an use some discretion in the cases they are aware of. Likewise the hybrids are not going to face many problems unless other mechanical mods are made. The rules are clear, what is less so is the latitude given for infringing them.

A bobtailed RR/Discovery would indeed need IVA, just like the Designa coiled Series chassis based vehicle or a 6x6. Even the 100" RRC/Defender hybrds need them as the chassis, while unaltered in wheel base, have altered rear cross members, out riggers and rear rail ends, regardless of the body work being irrelevant and all the mechanical parts being from the donor RRC. The steering issue of strap on hyd assistance has been proven with the bolt-on ram kit for Series LRs - I had it from the DVLA themselves when I did my rebuild that as it is a supplemental rather than replacement system, with the original system still fitted, then the points are retained. I never bought the system due to various reasons, cost being a big one, and recently sacrificed two points by fitting Defender/P38 hybrid steering. As far as the engine is concerned, while the word "specification" might not appear, the rules state that for the engine to count, it must be the original engine (not just one of the same type). While repair and reconditioning is perfectly allowable (often necessary for emissions, frankly), modification is not. In that, it is the same principle as the chassis - you can use a brand new one, but it has to be of original specification. I concede that the rules are poorly written; laws invariably are, which is why lawyers make so much money by twisting and distorting them to make loop holes. But that is a conscious act. However, if you read them dispassionately without trying to read in allowances for altering a list of things you want to do, they're fairly easily intelligible and clear for practical purposes. The greyishness will afford some protection for those who knowingly break them, and aspects such as retaining the original casings on older vehicles will never work - only engine numbers were kept with VIN details, so no DVLA inspector would ever know that you have replaced axles or transmissions like for like, and the steering boxes and relays weren't even numbered. So, you could easily build up a new vehicle from a new chassis and reconditioned parts and stick an old VIN on it; there would be no way to tell if you used period spec parts. But that is what the rules attempt to stop.

A loose wire run from battery post to the motor resistor terminals would test that.

Yep, you lose the chassis, suspension and axle points straight away.

Chicken, are you just trolling here? If you fit hydraulic assistance rams to the existing steering, then you obviously retain the points for the steering as the original system is still in place, you have merely added an accessory to it. As for changing the capacity of an engine, then it is plainly obvious the specification has been altered and it no longer constitutes the same engine, even if you used the same block, so you lose that one point. Springs are service replacement parts, but dimensionally different suspension arms are not, so swapping springs is acceptable but proper lift kits with castor correction arms will lose the two associated points. That won't "bugger" many people as most with lifts haven't made enough other changes that the two suspension points are critical. Series and coiler axles are clearly different specifications, and cannot possibly be construed as a direct replacement, as much as I'd love for that to be the case as it'd allow me to swap out the transmission too, points wise. The rules are also fairly clear in that to qualify for retaining the points on a rebuilt, the assemblies need to be the originals units, not just of the same spec, except the chassis if supported by a sales document to prove it's new and consumable parts like brake components, springs, dampers, bushes, seals and the like. So, the axles, engine and transmission need to be the original items fitted in the factory. They are allowed to be repaired with new parts, so in essence the rules are that the engine block and axle and transmission cases muste be original, not necessarily their innards, but still retaining original spec (ie. no over boring or stroking). Otherwise, you'd be able to build a new vehicle out of second hand or rebuilt assemblies and a new chassis and stick any old VIN on it, which would obviously be ringing. You are applying extreme lack of logic to a fairly simple system. Whether it be because you want to justify breaking the rules or are just spoiling for a fight on the forum I don't know, but everyone else can see how it works, so why are you continuing to argue pointless semantics?

If you're having to buy new, then they're probably similarly prices, but the LaSalle version is much more rugged - it doesn't sag, get damp, delaminate or get damaged by scrubbing clean.

I'm afraid so - the tubes were just cut away with a grinder as they were damaged and useless, but I wanted to keep the diff as it was in good condition. I't quite possible the plug welds are just holding in a locating dowel that passes through the drilled hole in the casing and into a matching hole in the tube, but that is just speculation. I know somebody replaced the tubes on a bent axle, I think he was in South Africa. If it wasn't on this forum, it'd have been on ExpeditionPortal.com . AN alternative tould be internal sleeving in the existing tubes - they have plenty of internal space without getting close to the half shafts.

The rules are relatively clear in practice. Any vagueness is because you're overthinking it. If you replace an assembly, as long is it is an equivalent part to the same operating spec, then no problem, but if the specs are different, then you have an issue. So, in the cases of the previous examples: Steering - changing Defender to Discovery is not a problem as they are equivalent. Changing Series to Defender is an alteration. Changing track rods or drag links to HD is also not a problem as they are regarded as service replacement parts; Engine - swapping an engine of the same type is no trouble, but changing capacity, fuel type or more is, so not only going from a 12J to Tdi, but even going from 10J (2.25) to 12J (2.5) is an alteration; Axles - swapping D90 and Discovery/RRC axles is no problem, but swapping them onto a 110 would be an alteration because of the rear axle differences. Swapping between different versions of 110 axles would not be an issue as they are equivalent parts, even going from an early drum brakes Salisbury to a a late 4-pin Rover type. You can uprate diffs, shafts and brakes with no issues - the rule seems more concerned with the axle case than its innards. Reinforced diff pans are, again, service replacement. Suspension - you can replace damaged or worn parts, you just need to keep the original system and dimensions. So, lifted coilers with cranked or drilled radius arms are a mod, but replacing with standard parts, including changing spring rates, is just service replacement. The DVLA permit the use of parabolic springs on leafers as a direct service replacement rather than mod as they are dimensionally the same, needing no alteration to fit, despite usually altering ride height. All of the above seems to be a judicious application of common sense. The rules are not there to stop us maintaining our vehicles or improving older modles, they are there to stop blatent deception by ringing. The real grey areas are entered by those looking to create them because they know they are bending or breaking the rules.

Check the coloured wires at the motor have voltage with the ignition on - if not, you have a supply fault (fuse, switch or wiring), and check the motor's earth wire is attached to a suitable earth point (clean and rust free, greased on assembly). The heater matrix benefits hugely from being flushed. I emptied mine out and then left a caustic soda solution in it for 15 minutes before prolonged flushing (caustic soda won't do much for your water pump or hoses). The steel pipes along the head and the control valve also block up with scale and rust, so cleaning or replacing them will be of benefit. You could use 13mm copper pipe from a plumbers shop (with olives soldered or compressed on for the hoses to grip) and plumbing pipe lagging will help keep the water in the pipes hotter until it reaches the heater matrix.

Ah, got your drift now. The jubilee clip is a good idea.

The tubes are an interference fit with large puddle welds. I think the case is cast steel.

Having had a good nose about a Tesla shop in the US last month, I was very impressed. I think the recharge times vs range will be viable within a few years, and it's already good enough that I'd buy one now if I had the cash.

Really? Seems pretty clear to me.

I used a LaSallle head lining in my 109. I prevented drumming and vibration and condensation and improved insulation by glueing camping roll mat to the roof panel first. It works very well.

You could just tighten the clamp screw...

Yes, but the Tdi doesn't do the job to the same specification as the 12J, whereas as an HD steering rod does, and the Tdi does need a fair bit of vehicle modification to fit. I get where you're coming from, though. It's a bit grey, and I agree that a jobsworth inspector could cause complications if they so chose and noticed the small differences in those basic parts.