Bloody SIII - swivel play?

[xychix]

After removing hub, brakes and brake back plate I mounted my Zeus disc kit and reassembled it all with new seals, the best bearrings I had, new greas in the swivel housing and so on.

After mounting the wheel I though I had a badly seated bearing as I had some play up and down on the wheel, having someone else make the movement while I was under the vehicle I discovered the outer-part of the swivel is moving with the wheel while the part attached to the axle stays in place. Did double check the inner hubnut was tight as it should be (~60nm + 90 degrees back).

Couldn't really think of a nut I left on to loose.... any ideas? is that what causes the 'wobble of death'?

I don't mind puling it ALL off again if I could just drive those 50 miles atleast once a year..... GRRRRRR. 

Edited October 24, 2017 by xychix

[lo-fi]

If I'm understanding correct, this sounds like a worn railco bearing. Yep, it's probably causing the wheel wobble! They're not too hard to do, just pressed into the top of the swivel. You have to swap a few shims under the top pin to get the preload right, but the shim kits are cheap, and it's quite a nice little job. 

Do you have freewheeling hubs by any chance? 

 

[xychix]

The car HAD freewheeling hubs. I threw them off as one was seized in locked state, the other was still freewheeling.I assume this was the working side which means this halfshaft has seen next to no movement.

Just watched this vid that I guess explains most.

I just dont have a good gauge to 'know' what to take out. can 'just take a few out' and give that a try? 

 

 

[xychix]

If this doesn't solve it I'll have to get everything off again to get a new bearing on the inside I assume..

[xychix]

Bye the way, does any one have a good exploded view of the swivel + hub?

 

there is a gasket between the swivelball and the stubaxle obviously... but is there also one (the same) between stubaxle and the back of the braking plate??? 

I'm affraid there should be as the bolts holding the backplate of the brake in place seem to go all the way into the swivelball (why the ## is that, just seems another 6 ways to get oil in the brakes...)

Edited October 24, 2017 by xychix

[xychix]

additional info, the play appears to be on the TOP of the swivel... so it might be a 'quick fix' for now. And prostpone the full overhaul a bit.

[lo-fi]

Yep, the railko is at the top - it's a roller bearing at the bottom. Decent diagram here:

http://www.lrparts.net/land-rover-series-2a-3-swivel-pin-housing-ball-drive-shaft-railko-bush-bottom-bearing-half-shaft-stub-shaft.html

I'm afraid there's no "quick fix"... If it's knackered, it's knackered. There's no way to tighten lateral play as it's a plain cylindrical. The adjustment shims set the axial preload on the tapered roller bearing at the bottom, which explains why the movement is at the top. The preload also sets up some resistance, which damps oscillations in the steering if set correctly, assuming the railko isn't worn radially as in your case. If they're so bad you're getting wheel wobble, I'd set about getting that sorted as soon as.

Keep the faith! One day soon you'll get on top of all the neglect from previous owners and be able to enjoy it! Good luck

[lo-fi]

Oh, and I asked about freewheeling hubs because the railko is splash lubricated by the UJ turning on the halfshaft. If they're not turning, there's no lube getting splashed up the top. FWH usual come with destructions telling you to engage them once a month to keep that railko lubricated, which is often overlooked or neglected.

[xychix]

21 hours ago, lo-fi said:

Oh, and I asked about freewheeling hubs because the railko is splash lubricated by the UJ turning on the halfshaft. If they're not turning, there's no lube getting splashed up the top. FWH usual come with destructions telling you to engage them once a month to keep that railko lubricated, which is often overlooked or neglected.

Yeah I do get that. Unlikely the previous user actually engaged the hubs for years and years.
Also I now suspect that my 109 (which was a noth african travel vehicle given by the books and bills that came with the car) once hit something solid on the left front given given that all bad/broken parts seem to be on that side. Also the rear connection of the left front leafspring to the chassis is dented (dent in the side of the chassis).

 

For now I'll go with quick fixes and make a decent shoppinglist as I go. Need to get atleast a few driving km's to keep me going and will dig back in next summer.

Good news, managed to gather all bad parts on the right side, so the left side (front and rear) should be mint. Maybe I should learn to drive on 2 wheels.

And offcourse I can't wait to feel the disk conversion combined with my Hella UP28 electric vacuum. (all piping and vacuum tank original just the hose of the engine inlet to the pump which is operated on the brakelight.

Edited October 25, 2017 by xychix

[lo-fi]

Interesting piecing together some history, isn't it. Sounds like yours has seen quite some stuff! 

You'll get on top of it all one day soon, and it's a nice feeling when you do

[xychix]

16 minutes ago, lo-fi said:

Interesting piecing together some history, isn't it. Sounds like yours has seen quite some stuff! 

You'll get on top of it all one day soon, and it's a nice feeling when you do

Yups, my 109 Station (9 seater) had the rear seats removed but had the fold down seats all the way in the back. A roofrack, safari roof, 2 spares (bonnet and rear door) and 3 diesel tanks (under each seat and the original in the tank). And it comes with 100+ bills from 1980 (first service) up to 1998. then it stops. By then it was likely in the south of France.

I bet it has seen the world  the clock says 70K, more likely 170, 270 or 370.

Edited October 26, 2017 by xychix

[Snagger]

It sounds like classic swivel pin, bush or bearing wear.  I replaced the whole lot on my 109's axles years ago.  Here's a link to the blog entry and photos: http://www.nickslandrover.co.uk/front-swivel-replacement/

It seems a Haynes manual would be useful to you, or better still a LR Workshop Manual.  The Haynes book is mostly reprint of the LR manual and a lot cheaper.  It does have a few bits missing, but is good for most work.  You can buy either online, and my blog has a bookshop facility to them (if you fancy adding about a Cent to my commission  ).

[xychix]

I guess I have some Haynes Land Rover restauration manual. But as I got to removing the stubaxles alrealdy while placing my zeus brake kit I guess the 2 balljoints and removing the halfshaft aren't gonna kill me  Will have a look in the manuals to see what they say about the shims.

Will make a decent shoppinglist for this summer. For now, I;ve just driver ~5KMs testing my zeus brakes and they are awesome! it stops!!!

Big thanks to anyone on here for advice, tips and the humor needed to just keep going!

My next job is more custom. As the seat box under the seats is cut up for placing 2 extra diesel tanks the seat is easy reachable for mice from under the vehicle... and they did! They've enjoyed my old seats so much I decided to leave the new ones in the box till I got this sorted. Today I managed to cut and pop some sheets of galvanized steel (~0.6mm thin) to size and mounted 1 side. Unfortunately I don't have the option of getting 'sheets' of landrover aluminium at a good price here in France.

Edited October 26, 2017 by xychix