Guest diesel_jim Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I've picked up a couple of York 210 compressors recently, and plan to install one onto my 90 for a permanent "on board air" system, but i've found that you can get a portable version like this which is just a 210 compressor with a motor bolted to it. Does anyone know what sort of motor i should use to run this? it would have to be quite beefy, and be able to run for several 10's of minutes (when doing tyres or running air tools.... the 210 compressor has more oomph than my mains little workshop compressor! ) I was thinking a starter motor? or are these not ideal to run continously? get one of the older inertia type ones without all the pre-engage stuff on it? any ideas how i should connect the two shafts together? the pump has a tapered shaft. I tried emailing Oasis, but it keeps getting bounced back. cheers all! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I've picked up a couple of York 210 compressors recently, and plan to install one onto my 90 for a permanent "on board air" system, but i've found that you can get a portable version like this which is just a 210 compressor with a motor bolted to it.Does anyone know what sort of motor i should use to run this? it would have to be quite beefy, and be able to run for several 10's of minutes (when doing tyres or running air tools.... the 210 compressor has more oomph than my mains little workshop compressor! ) I was thinking a starter motor? or are these not ideal to run continously? get one of the older inertia type ones without all the pre-engage stuff on it? any ideas how i should connect the two shafts together? the pump has a tapered shaft. I tried emailing Oasis, but it keeps getting bounced back. cheers all! J. Most starter motors only have bushes rather than bearings and the windings/armature are only rated for intermittent use. You need a winch motor. You need to connect it such that the compressor will be spinning at about 2000rpm. I have a sanden from a rangie fitted im my 110 for onboard air, much smaller and lighter than a York. It will inflate a 7.50x16 from flat zero psi to 32 psi in 25 seconds which is very fast. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Most starter motors only have bushes rather than bearings and the windings/armature are only rated for intermittent use. You need a winch motor.[b/] A winch motor.... whi didn't i think of that! i was thinking "what application uses a decent motor for long-ish periods of time......" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Starter motors are not a very good idea as they are only rated for intermittent use. They are probably also far too powerful for this application, and so will drain your battery pretty quickly. Common(ish) 12VDC motors in the order of 1/4 to 1/2 HP are the ones used on electric wheelchairs. I have picked one up in a scrapyard before, and they do turn up on ebay. Less common now, but still possible are the old battery lawnmower motors. These are around 1/3 HP. Again picked these up at scrapyards, and have seen the mowers at bootfairs. may even find one tucked in the back of someone's shed. The last possibility is for a new motor is Parkside Electronics- (01282) 613646 (no web address). They supply into the model engineering fraternity and have a good reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 A wheelchair eh? excellent, a mate of mine used to sell them. or, if you're in Swindon and you see some old gent in a chair spinning around in circles, you know i've nicked one of his motors!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Only minor issue with a wheelchair motor may be the fact that it'll probably be attached to a worm gearbox. Not the end of the world to remove it, but may add a bit of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 SimonR has built various contraptions using rad cooling fan motors... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Jim, unless you particularly need it to be portable, I would fit one as you originally planned ie on the engine. It is very straightforward and not as complicated or as expensive as it can first appear. On board air can be as simple or as complicated as you like, you only need a very few components to have an effective system. Most of the parts can be got cheaply. The oasis one has the following specs: ''This compressor has a 30% duty cycle and can run for 12 to 15 minutes at 50 psi after which it must cool down for 45 minutes to reach ambient temperature again. Very few 12 Vdc motors have 100% duty cycle and virtually no winch type motors do. Dimensions ( L x W x H ) 17" x 7" x 10" Net Weight ( Lbs. ) 45 Shipping Weight ( Lbs. ) 49 Motor Type Series Wound Motor Thermal Protector Yes Low Voltage Cut off Protector Yes Performance @ 12Vdc Max Pressure 175 Max Restart Pressure 100 Horsepower 2.5 Current at Max Load (amps) 200 Power at Max Load (watts) 2400 '' You could use part of the air con clutch to make a coupling for the connection with a winch motor, but it may be fiddly. At the end of the day it will be less powerful than an engine fitted version and you have to let it cool down. Just look at the amps it draws! You will need to have the engine running anyway, just to stop it flattening the batteries. I don't think it will run air tools without a tank either because it is restricted in its speed by the limitations of the electric motor. With an engine based onboard air, you just run the engine faster for more air and you only need a small tank if at all. You could get more speed by running a belt and different pulley sizes, but you will end up with an even bigger/heavier thing than the Oasis one at 20kg. If you have a look at this test of various compressor and co2 set ups, the Oasis is actually slightly faster than the same York compressor used in On board air. Then I realised that the Oasis is running at its 1,750 rpm, but they only tested the onboard air York at 1,200rpm. www.offroadair.net/4WD-0502-Air-82-85.pdf Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Cheers for that Diff. I plan to install the york "properly" onto my 300, a la on board air. i've got the reservoir and mounting ready, just need to sort the pipework and valving, and the pressure reducers for my ARB's. both of my york's have got the A/C type electric clutch on them. i bought a serpentine belt pulley when i was in the states a few years back, so it should go straight onto the 300 no problem.... when i finally remove/move the second alternator i've got in the A/C place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 As turbo suggested, I've built one or two electric air pumps using standard AC Compressors and DC motors. Despite what has been said above, starter motors work very well. In an automotive environment, they are not running that often (so having bushes instead of bearings doesnt matter). The big advantage is they are high torque. They can easily cope with the high starting torque of a compressor where a smaller motor would not. Best of all they are very cheap! Winch motors are good too. I've built one from a low power 2.5Hp? motor when it got upgraded - and it was very good! It could be even better with a decent motor! Wheelchair motors? Totally unsuitable I'm afraid. The raw motor is about 200W and develops very little torque. The last (actually the first) one was an Iskra 1kw 12v PM motor. It got hot pretty quick and struggled with the startup torque - but was OK. You can use the mag clutch to reduce the torque requirement on the motor by starting the motor a second or two before engaging the clutch - but with winch or starter motors it's not needed. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 As turbo suggested, I've built one or two electric air pumps using standard AC Compressors and DC motors.Despite what has been said above, starter motors work very well. In an automotive environment, they are not running that often (so having bushes instead of bearings doesnt matter). The big advantage is they are high torque. They can easily cope with the high starting torque of a compressor where a smaller motor would not. Best of all they are very cheap! Winch motors are good too. I've built one from a low power 2.5Hp? motor when it got upgraded - and it was very good! It could be even better with a decent motor! Wheelchair motors? Totally unsuitable I'm afraid. The raw motor is about 200W and develops very little torque. The last (actually the first) one was an Iskra 1kw 12v PM motor. It got hot pretty quick and struggled with the startup torque - but was OK. You can use the mag clutch to reduce the torque requirement on the motor by starting the motor a second or two before engaging the clutch - but with winch or starter motors it's not needed. Si Thanks for that Si, some more good info there. How did you connect the motor to the shaft on the compressor? Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thanks for that Si, some more good info there.How did you connect the motor to the shaft on the compressor? Jamie Armed with a Lathe, you can do anything! In both cases I made a poly-vee pulley. The starter motor (thankfully) had a bush at the end of the armature and another one at the end of the 'hood' which surrounds the drive gear. I just cut as much off as possible, disconnected the drive gear from the solenoid and glued it such that it was always driven. The Poly-vee pulley was actually pressed (read hammered) on to the original drive sprocket. Made from Ali, that was quite easy. Likewise taking a drive from the splined output of a winch motor. bore a hole in the middle of pulley a mm or so too small with a tapered lead in then hammer it on to the motor shaft. One could grind a flat and use a grub-screw as a nicer alternative. The winch motor needed a carrier for a bearing. that was also knocked up out of Ali. The starter version used the original solenoid switch connected to the pressure switch. Although the startup current is high (150A) the running current was only 40A or so, so the relay/contactor doesn't need to be that massive. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted January 24, 2007 Share Posted January 24, 2007 I've got one of those compressors on my desk at work!!! its a York 210, just like the one in the picture, with the tapered input shaft... I work for York Navy systems, part of the York refridgeration group.. we are now owned by an american company called Johnson Controls.. i've no idea how we ended up with that compressor in the office, but its brand new, and i only ended up with it because i stopped someone on their way to the bin with it!!! Jim, i'm interested in what you are planning to do with it, can you post some pictures when you get there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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