NV4500

[66gaza]

Hi, I understand some of the forum members are using one of these boxes and I am interested in what application you are using them, i.e what engine and what transfer case you are using and what clutch, what your experience's are with them. Where did you get them from? (please don't say the US, I mean from who in the US) where do you get the elusive oil from etc etc. Anyone put one behind the 2.8TGV yet?

Gaza

[dirtydiesel]

To the best of my knowledge there's nobody useing these at all, they are a bit thin on the ground in the states and for most engine conversions they require new imput shafts and bellhousings as they wern't really used in light truck application.

They are also a little long.

I considered long and hard the gearbox problems we have in this country and the best solution i could find was the borg warner t18, it's nice and compact and has a granny first but no overdrive top, they generally come with dana 20 trans cases which have a 1:1 high and a 2.14:1 low.

They are relatively cheap and easy to get hold of (easier to find over here than in the states) mine cost me £350, and the concensus of opinion over the water is that they are good for about 350 bhp.

I managed to pick a forward facing winch pto for mine off ebay usa as well.

[Astro_Al]

Oh boy am I walking into some abuse here...

Before Mr Fridgefreezer gets here, NO I am not USING one. But do I have one? Yes.

It is currently bolted to an Atlas transfer box and a vapour engine of the Chevy LS flavour.

I got it from the US.

The steel cage on the front is a wireframe 'engine' (note the high vapour factor), just used to mock things up for clearances etc.

Regarding the 'application', if I didn't have so much vapour-torque (vapour-talk...? ) I wouldn't have gone for that box. Unless you need some meaty gears, go for something from this side of the pond. Its much cheaper and much easier.

Someone is going to pipe up in a minute about alternatives available more locally. there are plusses and minusses to most of 'em, and in the end, I setled on this box.

Oil isn't too bad, I'll try to dig out some conversations I've had with lubricant people. Maybe I posted it on here before - did you search?

Cheers, Al.

* BRACE! * BRACE! * BRACE! *

[Astro_Al]

Crapsticks - I forgot to mention that I got it from greg miller at High Impact. They were very cool at sorting our exactly the spec of the box I wanted, kept me up to speed during the ordering / building process, and liased for me with Advance Adapters when the fittings on my Atlas oil level sight tube were wrong, so i got the correct bit sent out in good time. Highly recommended.

The overdrive top ratio was a factor in my selection. So was length - for a 5 speed, they're not too long at all. You just have to pick the right tailhousing etc for what you want. You also have a choice of ratios.

If you don't need an overdrive ratio, and the torque isn't silly on that engine, I'd strongly suggest you follow Dan's advice and stick with something like a used T18.

Hope it helps. Al.

[Guest diesel_jim]

Give Stephen Cahill a shout, he runs the old british wheels website in Canada, and exports the 2.8tgv all over the globe.

he has lots of contacts for people who have installe dthe engine in all manner of vehicles and gearboxes, and definately the NV box.

[Astro_Al]

Here's a conversation on lubrication which contains my findings on the NV lube.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=2360

Cheers, Al.

[66gaza]

Thanks for the replies. Astro Al I have searched and was surprised to find any posts at all about it. I did read the thread on the oil.

Are you going to use yours? . I didn't mention in my first post but I have one already, use it on my chevy diesel as I didn't have

any faith in a rover box it replaced a chevy auto. Have been running it for a couple of years now. I also got mine from High Impact.

Why will you get abuse from Frigefreezer? I wondered if any one else was using one who hadn't posted and was interested in what application

and or adapters they were using. Do you have any new info about the oil?. I notice your atlas is a pas drop, whats it going in? I am possibly looking for another one.

Gaza

[Astro_Al]

Gaza, yup - its quite a diverse forum when you start scraping around under the misleadingly 'Land Roveresque' exterior. And its all the better for it, in my opinion.

Why will you get abuse from Frigefreezer?

Don't worry, its more of a standing joke about the speed slowness of my project build than any bad thoughts about the gearbox. Saying that I'm 'using' one of these gearboxes is like a red rag to a bull... But I like to tell myself its all in good humour...

Are you going to use yours?

Are you doing this on purpose?

Yes. I'll save you the full sob story, suffice to say the tube-chassised LS/NV/Atlas Portal-axled MoFo is taking 'slightly' longer than anticipated...

I'll get there!

I've got no new info on the oil - I reckon I've read enough to know what I'll do about it.

I went PAS drop on the Atlas to get the driveshaft tucked up under the passenger side footwell - the issue centres around the portal diffs height and the engine sump. I chose to shoehorn it down the side of the engine to save overall height and keep the CoG good. Your truck can wind up pretty tall if you stack a tall engine on top of portal axle centre sections with a decent suspension bump capacity, so its best to misalign things where possible.

Cheers, Al.

[RPR]

Another box worth considering is the NP435. This will handle 2.8 tgv torque without question as it served behind big block Mopar monsters and saw service in 3/4 and 1 ton pick ups. They are much more readily available and a lot less expensive than the NV4500 and Ike Goss (Pangolin 4x4) has made up adapters for the Series Transfer box in the past. I don't know about an LT230 adapter. There were Ford and Dodge variants of the NP435 as I recall and there will be adapters from Advance Adapter for GM junk as well. They are short and beefy - nice fit in a 90. Downside is that they are a 4 speed but there may be a Gear Vendors overdrive available?

Talking blue sky stuff here, but it may be worth alos looking for the NV5600. That's what I have in my 3/4 Ton Dodge Ram 600lbs/ft of torque Cummins Turbo Diesel. Basically a beefier (and heavier) version of the NV4500 with six speeds. May be more readily available?

[Lewis]

. . . . there will be adapters from Advance Adapter for GM junk as well

Manual

Auto

[Lewis]

I was going to suggest the MT82 6speed box, with its crawler first, overdrive top, synchro reverse, LT230 compatibility, VERY compact size, and being fairly cheap and readily availble in the UK. However, I've just checked GTR for the ratios and the max input torque is a meager 360Nm, whilst a TGV puts out 375Nm in standard tune

There goes that idea

[bill van snorkle]

Marks 4wd adaptors (google) in Melb Aus have made adaptors and spud shafts to bolt the 4500 up to a 230.

Bill.

[dollythelw]

another option would be a TKO500 or 600, rated at 500 and 600ft/lbs respectively and weighing in at less than half the weight of a NV , the 500's got a nice spread of ratios, the 600's a closer spread

[Astro_Al]

Yeah, its a nice box Jez - I remember looking at it. If I recall correctly I had issues with the tailhousing length (remember the WBBSC thread on customising the tailhousing / output shaft?). I don't recall the length, but I think it was a prob.

The NV is 12.375" long (main case), and the short tailhousing is somewhere around 6".

Al.

[bill van snorkle]

Do you get the ten speed (5spd plus splitter in bellhousing) Toyota Dyna's in Europe ?

Bill.

[dollythelw]

Rakeway do a stumpy tailhousing to take it into the LT230 Al, up up it works out similar length as a 4pot bellhousing/R380/LT230 family meal combo from memory

[Astro_Al]

Ah - now that's better. I don't think that was around when I bought mine.

Well, if you can stomach the cost of the 600 and the custom tail, its certainly a nice choice!

Oh - and its not 'less than half the weight', its 'more than half the weight'... [but still super-light - probably due to the truck-stylie cast iron case of the NV to a large extent]

Al.

[Daan]

You can get a LT 85 to fit with standard parts, using a santana straight 6 bellhousing on the box and a 200 tdi backplate on the engine. Not sure what the torque figures are of a 5 speed lt85, but I would like this setup most as it is simple and only uses standard parts. very short too. Not sure what clutch would stand up to it though.

Daan

[dollythelw]

95lbs for a TKO, 195lbs for an NV4500

price wise the NV has it beat, ratios I guess are terrain dependant, the first and reverse are pretty deep on the NV

We dont get those Bill I cant remember the name of the splitter company; was it "Ranger"? or "Gear Products?" that produced the splitter that sits in front of the main box (memory failure)

[Astro_Al]

Jez - I'm seeing 105 lbs for the TKO, hence my frantic calculator action!?! Dunno. lets take an average, call it 100 lbs - oh look, just over half the weight!

There are various ratios for the NV.

Some more info on NV4500 and lubes - interesting.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/nv4500_spec.htm

Al.

[dollythelw]

half ish then

I thought the options for 1st gear were only 6.34:1 or 5.61:1? top being .75 ish

comparitive TKO numbers on HERE

Dan did you manage to find any max torque figures for the LT85? I'd guess that NV and Tremec spares would be easier to get in the US than Santana though?

just for debate what about a manual valve bodied 700R4 with E Lock?

[bill van snorkle]

We dont get those Bill I cant remember the name of the splitter company; was it "Ranger"? or "Gear Products?" that produced the splitter that sits in front of the main box (memory failure)

It's called the Ranger Torque Splitter Jez,and is made by Advance Adaptors in the US, But Toyota and Mazda (T series) trucks do their own, and being Jap 3 to 4 ton commercial vehicle quality, they are very good, and a heck of a lot cheaper over here than contemporary US transmissions.

Bill.

[66gaza]

Marks 4wd adaptors (google) in Melb Aus have made adaptors and spud shafts to bolt the 4500 up to a 230.

Bill.

Bill I have tried to get one from them 3 years ago. Long story short, Rang Oz do you make a NV4500 adapter to LT230 ? yes they said we don't advertise it so how do you know about it? I said I heard about it a few years ago and remembered for future reference. OK shipped and paid for. 2 weeks or so later it turns up...all excited I go out to the garage and Bast4rd it doesn't fit. Double checked and yes I had a GM 32 spline 4WD as required by Marks. On the phone to them they don't seem bothered and say thats all they do and it also fits a TH400!!!!! well I don't have or want a TH400 and it certainly doesn't fit a NV4500. I keep seeing on the web that Marks make one but do they? I don't think they know, not impressed with them. I would have thought that if they really did make one they would advertise it or why else make one?.

I did look at other yank boxes when I had an auto on my chevy diesel, but I really needed a O/D with a diesel that was going to spend alot of time on the road so alot of them were a non starter. The other problem I was not sure about was handbrake and speedo drive and was not too sure how to solve the speedo drive problem, I didn't know about the TD5 electric speedo then. Disc handbrakes can be had for some yank tcase's so that part would be OK. So went NV4500 as I thought I could buy an adapter from Marks to fit to my LT230 and it was all a bolt in affair. Didn't want another auto. I did look at the NV5600 but thought it was a bit OTT at the time, another gear would be nice though. I am also a cummins fan and knew that the GM NV4500 after 96 could be made to fit a 6BT or a 4BT cummins with a bellhousing and I/P shaft change so that kept my options open for the future.

Gaza

[Astro_Al]

I did look at the NV5600 but thought it was a bit OTT at the time

!

Yeah - about 180 kgs OTT !!!

Ouch! Thats 4 TKOs.

Al

[66gaza]

Here is the adapter NV4500 to LT230 I ended up with.

Gaza