need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Im at the point where im starting to think about how im going to fuel my 4.6. Ive been considering using 600cc bike throttle bodies, but im concerned about how much electric/electronic gubbins would have to go along with this option - i dont want wires and ECU's everywhere... OR do i go weber/edelbrock 500 on an appropriate manifold. I know the tb's have the potential of giving a lot more power than the weber.... Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Don't be scared use EFI. And use MS/ MJ for setting it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 What is MS/MJ? Sorry for the ignorance - im good mechanically but a complete rookie with injection...So once again for the layman.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Megasquirt/ Megajolt. Use the search button on those keywords and a new and enlightening world will open before your very eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Bike throttle bodies are no more wiring, you'd have 8 injectors (same as stock) and you only use one throttle sensor (if you use it at all). The fiddle is getting them all balanced and working smoothly, and keeping them that way in the mud. The stock inlet manifold is not perfect but they work well enough and are pretty robust once you've chucked the airflow meter and stock ECU away. MS/MJ Is MegaSquirt / MegaJolt - it's what I run on my 4.6. And my 3.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 thanks for the info guys. i may need to call on your wisdom in the fullness of time if thats ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 FWIW I have just changed from carbs to efi (with little prior efi knowledge) and would highly recommend it. If you stick to stock'ish parts, you have a known quantity and cheap install. Just make sure the bits you use are known good uns (including the loom) or recon because otherwise you can spend ages fault finding - worth spending a bit more up front. From what I have seen of the MS/MJ installs they are very impressive. So a combination of LR (or Jag) hardware (There are knowledgeable people on here to advise you the best mix and match bits for the result you want) and MS should get you a great setup. Efi is pretty logical and not that daunting once you have the information. Go for it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 OK im sold, after a little research, ive found that holleys and webers perform a little roughly ( ) off-road... So im starting to be seriously drawn towards efi. Baring in mind that im starting with a previously carb-run engine and no wiring harness whatsoever, what will be my complete shopping list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 ive now been told that using the cbr600 throttle bodies will not give me good low to mid-range torque. surely this is depedent on how there set up etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 30, 2007 Author Share Posted October 30, 2007 OK im sold, after a little research, ive found that holleys and webers perform a little roughly ( ) off-road...So im starting to be seriously drawn towards efi. Baring in mind that im starting with a previously carb-run engine and no wiring harness whatsoever, what will be my complete shopping list? BUMP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 A grown-up will probably come along soon to help with a comprehensive parts list, but you could read through Nige's thread for some hints.... Clicky to Nige's thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 ive now been told that using the cbr600 throttle bodies will not give me good low to mid-range torque. surely this is depedent on how there set up etc.... TB's can work but I wouldn't bother, the V8 is not really suited IMHO to that kind of mucking about, plus balancing 8 TB's is not my idea of fun. How they'd stand up to mud ingress in all the linkages would concern me. Shopping list - if you can find a good flapper (3.5) setup then that loom is easier to modify, although many of the looms go crusty with age, check the wires aren't brittle or cracked - a telltale area is the wires on the throttle sensor - if you can see bare copper, don't bother. Failing that, the hotwire setup contains more wires but basically that's it - make sure you get ALL the plumbing - in fact buying a whole block with everything on can be a worthwhile investment of £50-£100. If you can find a knackered 3.9 with everything intact that would be good. If you want to make your own loom, then ignore the bits above about looms although all the other hardware remains the same. The 3.9 injectors & fuel rail are a better design than the 3.5 but there's not much else to choose between them, either will work and the rest of the assembly is basically the same give or take a bit of plumbing. If you are getting rid of the distributor, you'll need an EDIS-8 unit (I have some, forum price £40) and a trigger wheel to bolt to the crank. For the crank sensor and coil packs, get to the scrappy and rob a few Fords - get VR sensors, coil packs AND BRACKETS (saves time fabricating) plus at least 8 HT leads. While you're at the scrappy, get a lambda sensor (1, 3 or 4-wire) attached to a bit of exhaust, and maybe an air temp sensor as mentioned in Nige's build thread. Then you need an MS ECU - the V3 does what you need and is solid, these are £225 built from either myself or Bill Shurvinton. Bill can sell you a kit of parts instead if that's your bag. If you are splicing into a loom and don't fancy lots of fiddly soldering I can do a "pigtail" of wires ready-soldered to the ECU connector: I find this makes life MUCH easier connecting to the loom. Price depends on length I'd have a good long read of Nige's build thread as it will tell you a lot of what's involved, what problems you can hit, how it all works etc. Nige bought a wideband lambda sensor, these are sort-of a luxury although many consider them a very sound investment for tuning, especially if your engine is worth a few bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 thanks for the info fridge. ive been having a good read at nige's thread recently, and its fascinating stuff. the only thing that concerns me slightly is the sheer volume of wiring required - and i dont have a garage to work in.. im off to do some studying of MS in general, and try to arm myself with as much knowledge as i can. ive no doubt i'll be picking your (and nige's) brains in the near future with silly questions - please forgive me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Yes there's a lot of wire, but what the MS needs is actually less than the flapper setup, and that's pretty damn simple itself. Bear in mind 16 of the wires are for the injectors, it looks a lot all bundled up but really only does one thing. Here's the basic connection diagram: These days you don't need the throttle position sensor, so that knocks three wires off. On a LR you don't need the fast idle solenoid, so that knocks another 2 wires off. So you're down to three sensors, a coil feed, fuel pump wire, and power. Only other bit is the vacuum hose from the plenum, but that's not a wire EDIS adds a few wires (8 from memory) but does away with a load of clockwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 errr, what do you mean by clockwork... thanks for the diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 errr, what do you mean by clockwork... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Ahhh CLOCKWORK - why didnt you say..... thanks fridge, i'll bare that one in mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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