V8 90 Technical Help

[Driftwood]

Hello all

Just come across this forum and hoping I can find someone on here who has built a V8 90 running a ZF Auto box. I'm in the middle of a build and am getting a bit of a headache as nothing is standard. Would love to speak to someone who's been there and done it.

P.S. I'm not a bloke so no swearing at me!

[Coastcard]

If you look in members vehicles section, you will see my 110 V8 auto conversion on the first page.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them up (do a search of previous topics first) or pm me. There are plenty of others on here who will be able to help in this area to - just fire away

[Mark90]

I put a V8 and ZF in my 90. Do a search on the forum, most of the points have been covered, but any specific ques post up.

[TJ101]

Yep, another 90 here,, with a proper engine it, mated to a auto box

As Mark says, most points have been covered on here, anything in particular ??

Welcome by the way

[Driftwood]

Yep, another 90 here,, with a proper engine it, mated to a auto box

As Mark says, most points have been covered on here, anything in particular ??

Welcome by the way

The things I need to know at the minute;

Cooling - which Rad to use and should I go with seperate coolers? Will a RR rad go in so that I can use standard coolant pipes.

Fuel: I have a TD5 rear end with the TD5 tank. I need fuel lines and expect the simplest route will be to go braided and have the correct unions put on. I have been give the fuel lines with the tank (diesel), but of course it's the wrong fitment on to the engine.

Exhaust - I been told there is a special downpipe for autos, but don't seem to see one listed - is this true?

Propshafts - will I need different propshafts to those that have come off the stripped down 90?

There are lots of other little bits and bobs, but these are the major things for now. Will browse through the other sections now.

[Driftwood]

Well I've found the answer to my propshaft question and also put my mind at rest about the exhaust thanks to Coastcard.

Mark - I can't seem to find your post and have spent a bit of time trauling - can you put the link to it on here?

Thanks

[Mark90]

Cooling - which Rad to use and should I go with seperate coolers? Will a RR rad go in so that I can use standard coolant pipes.

RR rad will need a bit of work to make it fit, and I think outlet may need altering to clear the PAS box when fitted to a 90 but not 100% sure of this, I might be getting confused with a Stage 1 rad that certainly does need the outlet altering to fit. I used a V8 90 rad in mine, mainly cos that's what I had and it fits with standard pipes. Another popular choice is TD rad, this will need an additional small outlet braising on, the V8 rad has two small outlets, one to manifold and one to expansion tank. One advantage of the TD rad is that unlike the V8 rad it has a built in oil cooler.

I used a 13 row 'mocal' cooler for the engine mounted in the grill beside the winch and mounted a 34 row cooler for the autobox on the front of the bulkhead and fitted with a 9" fan, this has the advantage of drawing the hot air out of the engine bay.

Mark - I can't seem to find your post and have spent a bit of time trauling - can you put the link to it on here?

I have answered a few questions for people (Coastcard included I think) on V8 auto conversions since doing mine, the posts should either be in this forum or the tech archive.

Edit: Here is the thread from the tech archive.

[Mark90]

Exhaust - I been told there is a special downpipe for autos, but don't seem to see one listed - is this true?

Propshafts - will I need different propshafts to those that have come off the stripped down 90?

I don't think the down pipes differ (what sort are you using BTW EFI, carb, custom?), but the Y-pieces certainly do in RRC's.

I used a pair of tubular headers and had the rest custom made, saved teh headache of trying to max and match genuine parts (tried a couple of Y-pieces but they were no where near).

Props are the same length on V8, 300di and TD5 90's. Props from 2.5D/P or 200tdi's won't fit, they have a longer front and shorter rear.

[nas90]

The things I need to know at the minute;

Cooling - which Rad to use and should I go with seperate coolers? Will a RR rad go in so that I can use standard coolant pipes.

Fuel: I have a TD5 rear end with the TD5 tank. I need fuel lines and expect the simplest route will be to go braided and have the correct unions put on. I have been give the fuel lines with the tank (diesel), but of course it's the wrong fitment on to the engine.

Exhaust - I been told there is a special downpipe for autos, but don't seem to see one listed - is this true?

Propshafts - will I need different propshafts to those that have come off the stripped down 90?

There are lots of other little bits and bobs, but these are the major things for now. Will browse through the other sections now.

I can send you the LR part No for a 3.9I V8 Nas90 radiator with integral engine oil cooler. About £250 new, just sold my old one at Sodury for £30 but it had done 12 years and 100,000 miles in the nas and needed a new core

Use a separate gearbox cooler and only use the hedgehog style long RR / Disco tube type, it will fit across the Defender in front of your main radiator, mine does

You can pick one up for £25 secondhand but be very careful that you check the threads where the pipes are connected at ends of cooler, most are thrown away due to over zealous use of the spanner and leaks. Also take a tape measure, there are lots of different length coolers! Under no circumstances use sexy rectangular coolers thay will cook the gearbox due to lower oil flow rates.

I have fitted Janspeed free flow headers and Y piece can send you part numbers. The nas was originally R380 manual and cats. Cats have gone because it is tested as LPG vehicle. What engine are you using?

Oh, welcome to our forum, nice to see new faces

[Mark90]

Under no circumstances use sexy rectangular coolers thay will cook the gearbox due to lower oil flow rates.

Really?

Why did landrover change from a bog brush to a very long and and thin 'sexy rectangular cooler'? Actually knowing landrover it was probably cost

My 'sexy rectangular cooler' usually keeps the oil below 80°C (90°C absolute max) under all conditions, be that heavy off road use or long road hill drags in 3rd or 4th with the TC unlocked, or hooning around in low box blowing the boy racers away.

[Coastcard]

Told you there would be a few others along . All were a great help to me doing the conversion. It might help though if you can say what bits (chassis, engine, box etc.) you are starting with and ending with.

Rads - pretty much as said below. Also worth considering which header tank setup you are using as to which pipes you will need. Some tanks work with small bore tube into the top of the v8 rad and some have a larger bore outlet on the bottom of the tank which feeds directly into the bottom rad hose. If you go for the latter route you can get away with using the TD rad without modification. However... you will need to find pipes with the correct bends. IIRC this is a RR setup and as such the stock bottom hose wants to go straight into the rad (as opposed to the 90 degree bend on the defender rads).

Exhausts are fun for this conversion. The 3.9 RR manifolds and down/Y pipes would need a bit of fabrication around the middle section. The Defender V8 system (certainly from double S) is not designed for an auto box and will need some tweaking.

Only propshaft you will need to change will be the front one if you change to the RR Borg Warner transfer box (as opposed to the original LT230 from the defender). Just use the Rangie propshaft - bolts straight in.

Depending on which way you decide to go I do have RR 3.9 manifolds and downpipes, RR gearbox oil cooler (flat panel/ sexy rectangular), a 3.9 rangie gearbox crossmember and various pipes left over if you need some bits.

I found it a great help to look at other conversions either in person or in mags. Where are you? If you have a tame LR specialist near you, get them to give you a ring if they get a similar vehicle in for work.

[Driftwood]

Yes sorry guys forgot the all important description!

The Chassis is a 1989 90, 3.9EFi Engine and ZF Auto box HP22 which has a modern torque convertor in from a 1998 Disco.

With regards to the gearbox, I'm stuck on the cooler pipes. I was given the long bog brush type cooler with pipes, but the fittings on the pipe were too small for the gear box. I've been told there are two different pipe sizes, so if someone could give me some advise here I'd be appreciative. Also Coastcard if you have the cooler and pipes that will fit this box I'll snap your hand off . I'm not fussed about using the bog brush one or the rectangular ones. I have friends who race in the BORC and they use the rectangular slot in coolers with no probs.

Propshaft - Now I don't think the transfer box is Borg Warner (isn't that Chain driven). Let me know how I can tell and I'll post the details on here. Due to this I think my propshaft from the original 90 will fit, but please let me know if it's otherwise.

Rad - The original 90 was a 3.5 Carb V8 and it had what looks to be a classic RR rad which fitted perfectly, but I won't risk re fitting it as it's very old and the fins are damaged. May consider a re core - what do you think? I can get a photo of it in case I'm wrong about it being a classic RR. I've been advised by a few people not to go down the TDI route. I know the coolers built in, but apparantly the engine cooling side is a little too small.

I'll pop a seperate post under this one with some photos in.

Thanks for all the help so far - don't think I've been on such a helpful forum

[Driftwood]

Well that's typical. I'd hoped I'd have a photo of the Rad from the original 90, but I don't so will have to go and take one.

[Coastcard]

I think the pipes I have are the smaller connectors also, but will check - you may be able to get adaptors - try an auto specialist. As you probably read, I had real trouble trying to find connectos for the flat panel cooler, but if you are prepared to buy new, you could get the correct ones (although I think this cooler was fitted only to Discos and as such need a bit more bending than the RR ones).

If you have the high/low lever on the xfer box, you can tell the difference 1) Borg Warner only has backward and forward movement for High /neutral, Low. 2) LT230 has the same Plus sideways movement for difflock (so an H shift pattern). The difflock on Borg Warner is a viscous coupling which makes the front output stick out more on the xfer box, hence the requirement for shorter propshaft.

If your rad is toast anyway, plan the cooling you want (see previous post) and get the rad rebuilt to suit. Worth having a known quantity for the sake of a few quid!

[Driftwood]

If you have the high/low lever on the xfer box, you can tell the difference 1) Borg Warner only has backward and forward movement for High /neutral, Low. 2) LT230 has the same Plus sideways movement for difflock (so an H shift pattern). The difflock on Borg Warner is a viscous coupling which makes the front output stick out more on the xfer box, hence the requirement for shorter propshaft.

Hhhhmmm, my gearbox came with no levers (bit of a bummer). Will see if I can get hold of the high low lever

[FridgeFreezer]

Ye local hydraulics shoppe will make you up a set of bendy cooler pipes for very few pennies, you'll need to either identify the thread or take an example to them for measurement. I've heard you can buy hose and fittings and make the pipes yourself as they don't take high pressure.

This is an LT230:

This is a BW:

Rad I would measure the space you have and get one made, mine cost about the same as the NAS one mentioned but is so open-core you could pass a squirrel through it without damage so it resists clogging up with mud. It has fatter cores so holds more water (which helps cooling) and because it's made from scratch you can have the pipes where you want for easy plumbing. Mine actually flows across and back to avoid the PAS box, with a couple of joining pieces I can use stock RR hoses which makes life easier.

Personally I don't like rads with oil coolers built in, I'd rather have a separate thing so if one gets damaged you only have one problem on your hands not two. That's probably just me being picky though.

[Coastcard]

Nice one John. Looking at his pics it may be that the front 'nose' on the Borg Warner is shorter than the LT230 (I said longer earlier and can never remember which ). Anyway, whichever it is, either the original prop if you are using an LT230 or a Rangie prop for Borg Warner (just make sure the Rangie you get it from was also Borg Warner! - most later autos were)

[Driftwood]

Right the transfer box is the LT230 - thanks for the photos. So I take it I can use the original 90 front propshaft. Not able to measure it up without taking a trip out and I'm poorly at home today

[Driftwood]

I suppose today I could work on the seat box as it's here at home in the shed. I have one from a 300Tdi and have been advise to use flashband on the battery compartment - meant to help insulate and soundproof a little. I aslo intend to seat the ECU in the battery compartment, but I'm unsure about having the battery under there, but I suppose it's secure!

I also have the screen and frame here. The seal is cream crackered on it and needs a new one, so could get that out and prep the frame up. Do you think it's worth trying to get hold of a heated screen to help with winter months?

[FridgeFreezer]

If you intend doing any wading I'd put the ECU higher up. Mine's on the ceiling

Heated screen is nice if you have the pennies, only you can decide if it's worth it.

[Mark90]

Right the transfer box is the LT230 - thanks for the photos. So I take it I can use the original 90 front propshaft.

As above.....

Props are the same length on V8, 300di and TD5 90's. Props from 2.5D/P or 200tdi's won't fit, they have a longer front and shorter rear.

You say you have a '89 V8 90. If this is factory V8 90 with LT85/LT230 then the existing props will fit assuming you fit a ZF/LT230 using the gearbox mounts from the RRC. This is what I have done and I used a front prop from a TD5 and a rear from a V8 90.

Ye local hydraulics shoppe will make you up a set of bendy cooler pipes for very few pennies, you'll need to either identify the thread or take an example to them for measurement. I've heard you can buy hose and fittings and make the pipes yourself as they don't take high pressure.

I made up my own pipes for the auto box cooler using the push on connections, it's so easy to make up the pipes on the vehicle to the exact length you want, and they are easily replaceable in the field should the need arise. These are rated up to the burst pressure of the pipe which is 17 bar and the cooler circuit only runs at 1 bar. I used 1/2" hose and just got connectors with the appropriate threads for the gearbox and oil cooler. IIRC the gearbox is M16 female thread and I used a male-male adaptor to give a BSP thread to match the cooler.

These are the type of fittings and hose I used to make my cooler pipes.

[FridgeFreezer]

These are the type of fittings and hose I used to make my cooler pipes.

Tell me you didn't buy them from demon thieves?

[Mark90]

No, they came from Merlin, but they don't give much info on their website. Although I have to admit I have bought one or two bits from Demon Theives, including the M16 to 1/2" BSP adaptors as Merlin didn't have any

[nas90]

Really?

Why did landrover change from a bog brush to a very long and and thin 'sexy rectangular cooler'? Actually knowing landrover it was probably cost

My 'sexy rectangular cooler' usually keeps the oil below 80°C (90°C absolute max) under all conditions, be that heavy off road use or long road hill drags in 3rd or 4th with the TC unlocked, or hooning around in low box blowing the boy racers away.

The long rectangular are OK so long as you can get the flow rate, you want the oil to flow in straight lines with plenty of cooling.

The sexy rectangular coolers are the ones fitted by boy racers to their Saxo's and from places that are orange

[nas90]

Well that's typical. I'd hoped I'd have a photo of the Rad from the original 90, but I don't so will have to go and take one.

V8's do not like to get hot. Rads although clean on the outside are prone to internal furring and are worse than useless. Do not scrimp on the rad otherwise you will be taking the heads off.