Hendrik Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 For example can you post up The version of the MS ECU system you are using: V3 PCB running MegaSquirt'n'Spark-Extra firmware EDIS 8 or not: yep Trigger wheel, how mounted and where is the "Gap" in relation to the VR Sensor: Trigger-wheel.com wheel, will take a pic of it asap What Version of software have you got in the MS and is the ECU "Talking" to the Laptop ? MSNS_Extra - James Murray etc. connection to laptop OK now...! What sensors your using (CLS MAT): I'll have to check... Which coil packs and how wired (I have one wrong on my MS Start up and it was horrendous : Coilpacks are OEM Motorcraft with Magnecor 85mm leads with High temp connectors What fuel pump your using: Fuel pump is Bosch High pressure (will post the partnr asap) How have you done the wiring ? - new loom as with me or modified existing one in which case just run through what went to where: The wiring is indeed a completely new loom made for the car. Have you powered the MS from a live wire and not from a wire live when only cranking ?: I'll have to check it out... VR sensor, can be wired the wrong way around: we'll try to switch them around! The above would then give those who know a fighting chance of sorting I have tried to datalog, which gave me an excel file, if you guys want it I can sent it via email (as I'm unable to upload an xls file.) thx Hendrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Hendrik, If you send me (you have my e-mail) Your FULL MSQ File You XLS Datalogged file I will run them and see what it sort of says, post up and e-mail back changes if they look hopefull BUT : was talking to Ian today (BBC) he agreed a good idea would be : 1 Connect you PC to MS 2 Start Megatune 3 Switch on Ignition but do not start 4 Do a 'screen dump' and post up what the gauges look like Basicaly if you have a sensor with the wrong sensor settings in the ECU then the ECU will be doing all sorts of wierid things - so post up a screen dump and we can see both MAF and CTS sensors reading, if you can't screen dump advise what the sensors on the Megatune are saying, the key ones are the Manifold Air Temp and the Coolant temp Senosrs, If you can ping the 2 files tonight I can run later Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Nige, I'll mail the XLS file to you, Ian and John, so you guys can have a look at it. Unfortunatly I'll be only at the car the soonest on thursday/friday. Thanks in advance! Hendrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Nige,I'll mail the XLS file to you, Ian and John, so you guys can have a look at it. Unfortunatly I'll be only at the car the soonest on thursday/friday. Thanks in advance! Hendrik NEED THE MSQ FILE TOO !! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 yep now sent! rgds Hendrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Hi Hendrik, Ok think we have something here : I have run it into MLV It shows me that there are issues with and some things look ok : From the top - RPM - yellow 0 - 2132 - seems to be working MAP 38-99 Blue OKish too CLT Coolant sensor - -40 degrees and never moved any higher - NOPE !! will run like its freezing Throttle position 8-95 blue - seems OK Spark 0-25 degrees - seems OKish MAT Manifold air temp sensor - -40 degrees and never moved any higher - again freezing ! O2 - er well what do you expect Basically the 2 sensors are wrongly calibrated, Ian BBC S19 file loaded will correct, I'll have a more detailed look but these are 2 HUGE probs, no wonder it runs rich. I'll step aside now for a MS Grown up to shoot me down ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 3, 2007 Author Share Posted December 3, 2007 So because CLT and MAT are not OK it runs rich? why? If I sort these out, it should run better... Will the msq solve all the probs? or something else I can do? Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 So because CLT and MAT are not OK it runs rich? why?If I sort these out, it should run better... Will the msq solve all the probs? or something else I can do? Thx! In simple terms colder = more fuel, your engine is at -40 !!!! so it will be reading horribly wrong, similarly the Manifold Air temp is also at -40 so the fuelling will be "Siberia Mode and then some" setting You need to be able to advise Fridge and BBC of the type and model of the 2x sensors, these then need to be calibrated, .............as an indication coolant should be around 50 cold 60/70/ warming up 80/90 running - so -40 is a way off Similarly MAT is normally at the mo 30/50 again not -40 So.................. Which sensors have you used ?? Is the CTS the Range Rover one ?... if so then the S19 file doesn't seem to have set the settings into the MS, What is the MAT sensor ?? This then I am sure they can sort as its on the edge on my knowledge, but again the sensor needs to either be changed for one with known settings or reclaibrated maybe with easytherm, or again maybe the S19 just hasn't uploaded to MS ECU... I think your nearly there tho HTH I'm sure one will be along shortly Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Could the -40C (lowest possible) reading on the inlet air and coolant sensors indicate an open circuit / sensors not connected or earthed properly? Could the 0deg max reading in MLV be picked up when MS boots? Just suspicious as the they are both exactly -40 and 0. Do you have the sensors connected properly and earthed? Edit: Even with mismatched sensors you shouldn't be getting as low as -40C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Agree with Tom - that's not a settings fault, that's a dead short on the sensor input or a disconnected sensor (although I think the input "floats up" to max. if there's nothing connected). Now we are getting somewhere! The reason it runs rich is that the ECU thinks the engine is at -40C and the air temperature is -40C, basically it thinks you are starting the car in a freezer. So, when the ECU calculates the amount of fuel to put in, the warmup enrichment will be massive (like choke on a carburettor) and the calculation for the air density (cooler = more dense) will also be way off and result in too much fuel. Looking at the graph, it is sitting at 190% warmup enrichment and 145% air-temp correction (zero correction would be 100%) so you have more than twice as much fuel going in as you should. If you look at the raw data for the sensors (ADC count) the range is from 0 to 255 (as the ECU records it), usually no matter how hot or cold a sensor is it will never truly hit 0 or 255, if it does it's a good indication there's a wiring problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 First we must fix the sensors ………………….. Whilst I tend to with Jon, Tom & Nidge ……………… I am still of the opinion that you should make sure the correct parameters for the sensors are in the S19 file firmware before you start looking for wiring faults that may, or may not be there……….. I cannot tell from the s19 file you sent if those sensors are correct …………… can you use that downloader to burn the S19 file that I sent to you to the ECU ? The log file is helpful ……………… B) From that I can tell that most things look Ok ……….. but you must remember that the O2 sensor is not active until 70C ………… and its gets this reading from the coolant sensor…….. If you cannot burn the S19 file then you must correct your own file with Easytherm… Go here ………..http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/mtabcon.htm Look in the files section and download / install the program………(EasyTherm) Once you have installed the program, I / Jon will post the values you need to use for the Rover coolant sensor……………….what is the part number of the air temperature sensor ? Once the values are entered then easytherm generates a new S19 file and allows you to burn it into the ECU……….. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Nidge That has got to be one of the greatest typos of all time!!!! PMSL!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 As I have no idea which sensors I use, I have just ordered these: http://www.extraefi.co.uk/products.htm#tempsensor. They normally should make life a bit easier I think (hope). Normally I should have them in tomorrow or the day after so we can start testing again! Starts to become fun! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 That has got to be one of the greatest typos of all time!!!! PMSL!!!! What makes you think it was a typo ....... ................... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 OK so you have the default temperature sensors - so you don't need to run EasyTherm and you can use the standard MegaSquirt-n-Spark-Extra .s19 rather than the "corrected for Rover" one that Ian has sent you. Your next step is to check the wiring to the sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petergg Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I know sweet FA about Megasquirt or megajolt or what ever they are called where is the advantage over std please should I do this to my 3.9 V8? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Peter - yes Quite a bit in the tech archive about it, or have a read of Nige's thread which I think explains most things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petergg Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Thanks John, more expense Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 OK so you have the default temperature sensors - so you don't need to run EasyTherm and you can use the standard MegaSquirt-n-Spark-Extra .s19 rather than the "corrected for Rover" one that Ian has sent you.Your next step is to check the wiring to the sensors. Sensors are in! Will test them tomorrow! What do you want me to check on the wiring fridge? Thx H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Sensors are in! Will test them tomorrow! Are you saying they weren't in before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 7, 2007 Author Share Posted December 7, 2007 They were, but had no Idea which ones we used . To avoid problems I ordered the new ones on monday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomG Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Hendrik: A good check to do is on powering up the Megasquirt (Ignition on) with Megatune running on a laptop and serial cable connected, and before attempting to start the engine, check the readings for 'Coolant Temp' and 'Manifold Air Temp', both should be reading near enough the current outside temperature. Any 'far out' values indicate the MS needs to be calibrated for a sensor (using Easytherm) or a wiring problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Connected the new sensors today a MUCH better result! Although we still have some misfires (have to start reading on how to solve them). Did a bit of testdriving today and now have a logfile of 12 minutes so for those wo are interested.... BTW: a small movie about the first test: rgds H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Looks good! Wish I didn't have my speakers up quite so loud though! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted December 9, 2007 Author Share Posted December 9, 2007 Fridge, BBC and HFH I just sent you the logfile via mail, hope you can discover the cause for the misfires... Going to start reading now about "tuning"! Thanks again all of you for your great help! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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