istruggle2gate11 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Hi, Can somebody shed some light on this little problem please: Transfered the efi system off a working and known good car onto a mates offroader hybrid type thing (was on strombergs). All wires connected as should be, however, it will run for about 0.5 seconds when cranked, this is because the cold start injector opens and gives a short spray when the ignition is turned on. I know the spark side of things is good as the motor will run with the tried and true method of pouring petrol into the plenum. infact it runs fine like this! The fuel pump activiates when the ignition is on and the flapper valve pushed, everything seems to be fired up fine, but the injectors are having no electrical feed at all. A known good air flow meter exchange has been tried. The only thing I can think of is the resistor pack, but I always thought these things were bombproof? Im reluctant to try the spare ecu I have just in case it blows or develops similar faults, I do have a full spare wiring loom. Any Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Are you certain the ECU is getting a spark signal? It might be worth shorting over the over-run relay - can't remember the pin numbers off hand, but I'm sure you can work it out from the diagram. You will be taking the -ve side of the coil direct to the ECU this way (I think it is the white wire...the relay in question is by the resistor pack somewhere...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Are you certain the ECU is getting a spark signal? It might be worth shorting over the over-run relay - can't remember the pin numbers off hand, but I'm sure you can work it out from the diagram. You will be taking the -ve side of the coil direct to the ECU this way (I think it is the white wire...the relay in question is by the resistor pack somewhere...) Hmmm, interesting, the bit I didnt mention....... The loom had been cut into for an aftermarket immobiliser, in the area of the resistor pack and overun relay, Ive connected up the loom as per wire diagram, but must admit, this has been my area of concern. Never realised I could Pinout the ECu for this, will look up the pin numbers (although i must admit to feeding the shutoff relay 12v and 0v now and again in desperation with the probe!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 From the coil -ve (or ignition amp) is a white/blue that goes to a relay mounted on the shock turret by the AFM and resistor pack. From this it goes to the ECU as a white/black wire. You can safely remove and "jumper out" this relay (join white/blue to white/black) as it's only there to kill the RPM signal on over-run, a total bodge really. It's activated by the vacuum switch next to the fuel pressure regulator. DO NOT jumper the PLAIN WHITE wire to the PLAIN BLACK wire as these are the +12v and GND feeds to the relay The resistor pack should have +12v into it on the two fat brown wires with the ignition on, with the ECU not firing the injectors you should see +12v on all the brown/yellow wires coming from the resistor pack too. IIRC it'll be 5.6 Ohms resistance from the BROWN to any of the Brown/yellow wires although your meter may struggle to measure it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 From the coil -ve (or ignition amp) is a white/blue that goes to a relay mounted on the shock turret by the AFM and resistor pack. From this it goes to the ECU as a white/black wire. You can safely remove and "jumper out" this relay (join white/blue to white/black) as it's only there to kill the RPM signal on over-run, a total bodge really. It's activated by the vacuum switch next to the fuel pressure regulator.DO NOT jumper the PLAIN WHITE wire to the PLAIN BLACK wire as these are the +12v and GND feeds to the relay The resistor pack should have +12v into it on the two fat brown wires with the ignition on, with the ECU not firing the injectors you should see +12v on all the brown/yellow wires coming from the resistor pack too. IIRC it'll be 5.6 Ohms resistance from the BROWN to any of the Brown/yellow wires although your meter may struggle to measure it properly. Cheers guys, i will try this in the morro and report back. Fridge - can you pm me the details please, certainly need edis asap! - ive lost them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Knew Fridge would know the right colours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted November 30, 2007 Author Share Posted November 30, 2007 Knew Fridge would know the right colours... I never know if its either very impressive or just sad? [i need help mode] IT IS VERY IMPRESSIVE! [/i need help mode] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Any news? Yes- it's not impressive, it's sad and I know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 So you think FF is sad………………….. The control of the ECU is quite interesting………….. The white black is on the (-) side of the coil and feeds the ecu via a 6K8 resistor. The resistor is there to stop small value spikes from falsely triggering the ECU, however, if you look at the ecu input conditioning circuit, the ecu will only respond to spikes of a few hundred volts, so in reality the resistor could be omitted without any ill effects. The pulses from the coil to ecu pin 1 tell the ecu not only the engine speed, but also the fact that the engine is running …………… if the ecu detects no pulses, then it assumes that the engine is not running and shuts off the injectors (pulse width = 0) , however, it leaves the pump running (not that it matters) as the AFM flap is open and the pump circuit is completed via the ‘air flap’ switch contacts ………. Shall I post up the input circuit to the 14CU ecu so we can discuss this further ? Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Shall I post up the input circuit to the 14CU ecu so we can discuss this further ? Oooohhh...Don't tease me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Hurrah, I'm officially not the saddest person on here Only just, I know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Any news? Thanks guys, you were spot on, a pin out around the overun relay did the trick, however its now running richer than a rich thing on a very rich day. Done the most basic of checks, just about to go and hunt this forum for further check procedures. So you think FF is sad………………….. The control of the ECU is quite interesting………….. The white black is on the (-) side of the coil and feeds the ecu via a 6K8 resistor. The resistor is there to stop small value spikes from falsely triggering the ECU, however, if you look at the ecu input conditioning circuit, the ecu will only respond to spikes of a few hundred volts, so in reality the resistor could be omitted without any ill effects. The pulses from the coil to ecu pin 1 tell the ecu not only the engine speed, but also the fact that the engine is running …………… if the ecu detects no pulses, then it assumes that the engine is not running and shuts off the injectors (pulse width = 0) , however, it leaves the pump running (not that it matters) as the AFM flap is open and the pump circuit is completed via the ‘air flap’ switch contacts ………. Shall I post up the input circuit to the 14CU ecu so we can discuss this further ? Ian Ian really really scares me, what on earth drives a man to require this level of knowledge? I think he is just using LR's as a front to taking over the world (only kidding mate ) Hurrah, I'm officially not the saddest person on here Only just, I know... Aw come on, I thought we were about to have a battle of the nerds! Request the circuit diagram! Seriously, thanks guys, its the little snipets of information like this that really help mere muppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastcard Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Rog, Apologies if teaching you to suck eggs: 1) Check timing - amazing how this can make it look very rich! If on flapper then O degrees. 2) Cold start system. 3) Coolant Temp Sender. 4) Air Bypass valve thingy (and all breather hoses). 5) Electrical checks as per the manual Nige posted. 6) Try another known ECU (or have I got that?!), AFM and resistor pack. 7) Oh and the old favorite. Genuine dizzy cap rotor leads blah blah. Does it run rich all the time, or does it get better as it warms up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Aw come on, I thought we were about to have a battle of the nerds! Request the circuit diagram! I have just drawn in the relevant bits ..................... The IC's were specials to Lucas and manufactured by ferranti ................................... the diode is a 600Volt soft recovery diode............ Discuss.......................... Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 12, 2007 Share Posted December 12, 2007 Discuss IMHO no need, .............the sadness biscuit is yours Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 IMHO no need, .............the sadness biscuit is yours Nige Agree 100% He even phoned me to confirm his knowledge - fantastic! (Joking aside, this forum is all the better for people as enthusiastic and knowledgeable as this, I sleep soundly knowing I can blunder along in life and have a sensible annswer from these chaps!!)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Rog,Apologies if teaching you to suck eggs: 1) Check timing - amazing how this can make it look very rich! If on flapper then O degrees. 2) Cold start system. 3) Coolant Temp Sender. 4) Air Bypass valve thingy (and all breather hoses). 5) Electrical checks as per the manual Nige posted. 6) Try another known ECU (or have I got that?!), AFM and resistor pack. 7) Oh and the old favorite. Genuine dizzy cap rotor leads blah blah. Does it run rich all the time, or does it get better as it warms up? Teach all you like matey, its always good to be reminded - and yes you do have my good known unit It runs rich all the time, hoping to get at it on Monday evening (been getting ready for the conversion from Squirt n spark to squirt n edis) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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