Disco I 200Tdi clutch failure - need confirmation

[retne]

Evening!

The subject's clutch is gone. After 2-3 weeks of standing one cold snowy morning (here in Estonia we already have winter...) the story went like this:

Jumped in, started, drove off - all fine. Reverse, 1st, 2nd etc gears all engaged like they should. After literally 500-600 meters started to notice on traffic lights that the gears engage worse and worse. It happened quite quickly - within a minute I lost 1st - just couldn't get it in anymore, and 2nd was stiff - I juuuust could get it in. 3rd and further went in OK probably because by then the beast (and all it's gears) was already in motion. Still - the pedal had to be completely at the bottom to change gears - it worked within 2-3 cm from the bottom. So - it stayed this way for the rest of the trip - 5-6 km. Stopped there, used another car to manage other stuff, back into the Disco, started, and - all gears back ok. Exactly like described above after some driving lost 1st and .... well scroll up and re-read.

Next morning checked the clutch oil - what do you know - substantial part missing. Topped up, pumped on pedal, all gears back AND smoother than ever before - even the reverse forgot about it's usual krrrrnk. After hour+ of 5th gear highway back home and - you guessed it - 1st gone, 2nd so-so.

Checked the parking places everywhere I stood for hours - no drips. Haven't had time to check the oil level again.

So - as here it is exactly like english autumns used to be in medieval times (according to books that is...) - rainy-snowy, windy, chilly - I would not like to get under the Disco before I have exhausted all other sources of info. Considering all the relevant posts here I would say you suggest the "clamp test" to just find out WHICH of the cylinders is gone - it is probably no doubt that one of them IS gone. Or?

And - could someone point me in the general direction of a good (illustrated) replacement howto. I do have the Haynes manual, but for example Les's manuals have always looked far better - I wonder if there is one for my task somewhere? Oh - one more question - let's say I guessed correctly and will have to change one of the cylinders - I know that I should also replace the other cylinder and the flexible hose. Something else strongly suggested? Some no-no's to avoid?

Thank you all in advance!

Olger

[BogMonster]

Morning! (well it is here)

Yes it is most likely something in the hydraulics and my experience is that if one cylinder is on the way out the other one probably isn't far behind so the best option is to change both lots of seals and flush the cruddy fluid out then at least you can forget about it for a while. Have a look in the tech archive forum as I think there is info in there.

[Dikiy]

Slave cylinder die. Don't try to fix by repairing kit, it will back very soon. For urgent repairing You can use seal from Moskvich- same diameter. Change cylinder completely. There are two types of this for 200tdi TKC2786L (to KA045958 ) cheaper model and FTC2498 (from KA045959). According MC I need 2-nd one, but I was install TKC2786L and no problem. Suppose they are the same dimensions inside and out

I'm not good in English, so You can send me PM or mail on Russian

[Les Henson]

Hello Olger.

Do the clamp test and if the pedal is solid, then the slave has failed. Replaing it on a 200TDi is very similar to all earlier models, so this thread is still a good guide to how to do it.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=13350

Les.

[retne]

Hey all!

I am back and for once not too happy about it... I still have the same car and it now has a similar problem again. The 2007 event ended with changing both clutch cylinders and gave me happy 3+ years in mud and forests. Now the symptoms are different and I'd love to hear your opinions again.

Was driving in heavy city traffic. Literally within 20-30 seconds in stop-n-ease_fwd-n-stop-n-go traffic the clutch went from perfectly OK to grinding gears. The pedal did not feel any different for the most part of the movement - it did not go heavy nor sloppy. Comes back up normally. No noises. Just to get the gear in you press the pedal - it goes about to the point where it used to release / bite - and then the last inch or two you have to PRESS it so that the seatback is creaking and you get the gear in aaaalmost grind-free. Next 40 minutes I had a semi-auto box - clutch PRESSED into the floor and brake holding the car. As soon as released brake car creeped. Strangely the engine did not sound strangled while keeping the car stationary with the brake - was idling happily as if nothing was wrong. Got home eventually. Last 3-4 miles were a bit easier - no traffic. While parking it seemed the clutch was almost back - reverse grinded a bit but then it always did a bit. Checked the clutch fluid - all there, but all dark brown - from the slipping I assume? Did not move the car for about a week. Yesterday drove it to a potential mechanic about 40 miles - all basically the same as described above - releases within the bottom inch, but man is this last inch heavy!!!

So - now I bought a new slave, but the mechanic thinks it is not the cylinder because the oil is all still there. He thinks it is the clutch itself. And the bad part? Well - he does not want to take the job - the box and the trancfer box "look awfully heavy".

Let all the guesses and good advice flow my way!

Thanks a lot!!

[BogMonster]

Deleted 'cos I got the wrong end of the stick

[Les Henson]

If the pedal feels ok otherwise, then I would guess the clutch has had it/jamming (hence the effort to press the pedal fully). Thrust bearing or the sleeve it moves on looks like the culprit, although the thrust bearing jammed in the cover fingers will give similar symptoms.

Les.

[Range Rover Blues]

If the fluid is brown then somethings is wrong, have you tried bleeding it?

I also remember something about the clutch pedal pivot being adjustable, I fited a new one and couldn't get the clutch to clear 'till I had done it.

[discomikey]

i reckon its the clutch fork, if its bent or broken there will be slack inside the bellhousing, all fluids will be alright.

the last bit is it coming upto the thrust bearing and disengaging as it should be(ish) and its probably harder because it may be jamming istelf?

i would think to be honest there is only one option, and its box out but its not too much of a job anyway it just looks and sounds daunting. there is threads on here how to do it.

[retne]

Morning!

Thank you for your help and suggestions! I am happy to say that I am offroading once again. It was the clutch bearing. Everything else was changed as well, but the failed part was the bearing. It looked as if someone with more muscles than brains wanted to take a good look inside - the protective metal and plastic sidecovers of the bearing (I'm guessing here - they were almost beyond recognition) looked like a cabbage after a minute on Shaun the Sheep's set. :D It was still rolling, but the pieces of the covers were in between the rollers with predictable result.

Thank you all - the forum has helped me out once again!