P38 gearbox compatibility

[Aragorn]

im pondering some engine ideas for a D90 and came across the BMW M51 powered Range Rover P38A

I know that particular diesel engine is a bit useless but it uses the same bellhousing pattern as a number of petrol 6cyl BMW engines including the common 2.5 and 2.8 24v units fitted to the E36 325i and 328i

The later variants of this engine have an alloy block and i realised this might make a decent conversion.

My question is that the P38A uses an R380 with some borg warner txb, does anyone know if it would be possible to take the bellhousing (and probably the mainshaft) from the range rover R380 box, and fit it to a normal Diesel R380 Defender box to enable the BMW engine to bolt up....

it seems to work in theory in my mind unless ive missed something obvious!

cheers

[will_warne]

im pondering some engine ideas for a D90 and came across the BMW M51 powered Range Rover P38A

I know that particular diesel engine is a bit useless but it uses the same bellhousing pattern as a number of petrol 6cyl BMW engines including the common 2.5 and 2.8 24v units fitted to the E36 325i and 328i

The later variants of this engine have an alloy block and i realised this might make a decent conversion.

My question is that the P38A uses an R380 with some borg warner txb, does anyone know if it would be possible to take the bellhousing (and probably the mainshaft) from the range rover R380 box, and fit it to a normal Diesel R380 Defender box to enable the BMW engine to bolt up....

it seems to work in theory in my mind unless ive missed something obvious!

cheers

If the E36 engines have the same bolt pattern to the M52 then you'd be able to do it with off the shelf parts - the 2.8l M52 was available in South African spec Defenders.

Also, you probably would be able to make up the sort of gearbox you suggest but I tend to run away and hide when it comes to pulling gearboxes appart! I'd talk to Ashcrofts to see what they thought.

[Aragorn]

the E36 engine is the M50/52 (year dependant) which is pretty cool!

however i doubt a SA spec M52 gearbox is going to be commonly available within the UK whereas a P38 TD gearbox shouldnt be too hard to find

[minivin]

I think the ratios were pretty standardised with the R380, unlike the LT77, but as stated above best ask Ashcrofts!

[T1G UP]

Would the v8 m5 motor fit that box! B) now theres a thing 400hp 90

[Aragorn]

as far as i know BMW used a different bellhousing pattern on the V8

theres still some pretty potent 6cyl motors though: S38 M3 engine makes around 320hp for instance. Theres a few very decent TD's making anything from 190 to 280hp as well but i think with them being from later cars (1998 onwards) they'd be extremely difficult if not impossible to get running in the defender as most of these engines have their ECU's tied very closely into the cars electronics

main reason i'm interested is that i am currently rebuilding my 90 with a new chassis and such and i'm looking for at least 200hp in the final build, i think i'll be pushing the 300TDi quite a bit to get that kinda power from it however so have been looking at alternatives. And no, i'm not putting rovers awful V8 under the bonnet!

[David Sparkes]

As you are into standard BMW engine information, I'd take a look at the sump and oil pump pickup arrangements on a 38A, comparing them to a BMW saloon.

ISTR some changes being required by Land Rover to enable it to run at LR standard angles, at which BMWs response was 'why?', but at that time they hadn't bought LR so didn't know any better.

Presumably you have talked closely with Jeremy Fearn? Last time I was there he was getting bespoke ECUs direct from Bosch Motorsport. Working on the 3.0 version, obviously, with lots of other modifications.

I'm not suggesting you need to go that far in a Defender, but he should have the experience to draw on.

There are road going Defenders with the BMW 6, the 2.5 version at least.

HTH

[Aragorn]

ive not spoken to jeremy fearn as ive only just begun to look into the BMW engine idea, the bespoke ECU's you mention; were they for the 3.0 M57 Diesel motor or the 3.0 M54 Petrol?

the 3.0 M57 diesel really would be an awesome engine in the 90, 180hp in standard trim with a 275hp twin turbo version available however the stock ECU will likely be so integrated with the car loom that its going to be extremely difficult to get it running without gutting half the wiring from an E46, if jeremy has developed a standalone ECU for the M57 then its a very interesting proposition indeed.

The petrol engine is much easier to utilise as you can use the older wiring loom and management system from a E34 or E36 which just needs some basic power feeds and provides your tacho etc outputs all in one plug

also if the sump etc is different then for the petrol at least i should simply be able to order the south african defender version of the parts and they should bolt streight up!

[nicksmelly]

I've got a 3.0 TD (M57) aka TD6 going in the back of my Bowler(type) racer. Standard ECU and loom with the EWS modified by JJFearn so I can use it without the immobiliser or the rest of the car electronics.

But Mr JJF can easily get 200BHP from a standard 2.5 litre P38 diesel engine with modified ECU and intercooler. If you want to pay more for the modified turbo, I have a friend with one in a Bowler type racer and it's got 205BHP at the wheels.

[David Sparkes]

Jeremy only runs diesel engines, and as far as I am aware, only BMW diesel engines. Thus the bespoke ECUs are for the current diesel engines. He has been active in running a comp motor for years, since before '99, and in those he runs 3.0 engines. He pioneered a twin turbo installation, I believe that was on a 2.5, but it was so long ago I've forgotten. Obviously it's the comp motors, for himself and his other customers, that get the cutting edge stuff, in exchange for money.

I had got the impression you were looking at diesels, which was why I responded.

However you keep mentioning petrol, and with those I can't help you with, and I don't think Jeremy can either, but I'm not writing for him.

As each situation is different, his web site won't mention a lot about competition motors, you need to establish that conversation with him yourself.

"if jeremy has developed a standalone ECU for the M57 then its a very interesting proposition indeed."

I don't know how much is 'Jeremy developed', and how much is Jeremy having a 'recognised motorsport user' status with BMW Motorsport. I suspect you need some sort of recognised status, based on past achievement, and probably face to face contact, before BMW allow you the goods. Bear in mind that with cutting edge stuff, having access to the man in Germany who wrote the programme is very valuable support. You cannot just buy that.

Bottom line is, I'm sure Jeremy could supply a stand alone ECU for the M57. Probably no security electronics, but you aren't in that sort of market. Or if you are we are at cross purposes.

Again, you need to speak to him, preferably when you have a diesel path sorted out, like can you get a 3.0 litre diesel engine, is it within your budget, how much more than standard do you want, how much money have you got to spend, etc etc. I hope that sentance isn't teaching you to suck eggs, that is not how it is intended.

Note I've written BMW, it's just occured to me that my memory may be at fault and it could be Bosch. When someone says 'have a look at this' and only after you have picked up the ECU does he say 'that's easily worth more (in pound notes) than your car is; then you (I) get a little nervous, and forget what the label on the ECU actually says.

FWIW, in this context, this is his web site http://www.jeremyjfearn.co.uk/

Cheers.