tricky Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 hi i have read about the spider issue with 300 tdi discovery and was wondering if anybody thinks that is what could be causing my problem . my 1996 300 tdi discovery is used all week monday to friday to get to work and home again with no problems , but when the weekend comes and its used off road ,splashing thru puddles and a bit of mud i get the same problem keep happening if i turn it off . when i turn the ignition back on and wait for the glow plug light to go out then turn the key to start the engine nothing happens , the engine wont turn over , everything that should work with the ignition on does work , wipers, fan,radio , headlights etc but it wont turn the engine over , i was lucky today as i stopped on a hill and rolled it down to bump start it which it did ok and ran as normal . does this sound like it could be the spider , i am trying to work out why it doesnt do it all week when used on the road but does it weekends when i go off road - it cant be the spider is getting wet as i think its buried deep inside the dash behind the radio isnt it ? under the bonnet is obviously getting wetter when i go off road and i was wondering if its something under the bonnet ?? any ideas much appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 What age is your disco - does it have one button on the key fob or two - is it auto or manual. It doesn't sound like the spider but it's a cheap fix to bypass it and eliminates it for the future. Have you tried without the glow plugs, just turn the key straight round from nothing to start? Could be the starter solenoid sticking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 What age is your disco - does it have one button on the key fob or two - is it auto or manual.It doesn't sound like the spider but it's a cheap fix to bypass it and eliminates it for the future. Have you tried without the glow plugs, just turn the key straight round from nothing to start? Could be the starter solenoid sticking? my disco is a N reg 1996 , the remote has 2 buttons and its a manual gearbox i have tried it without waiting for the glowplug light to go out but it still wont start i thought about the starter , i will have to take it off and check it . thanks for your reply . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Well it should have a spider then, so it's probably worth bypassing the spider to make sure before doing anything else. The bypass plug is an official land rover part and only costs £5 and even if it doesn't fix it, it's worth doing as it will go at some point and leave you stranded. The part number is AMR4956 and is available from any Land Rover Dealer for £5 A guide to doing it is here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86 The common fault caused by the spider is that it fails to open the stop solenoid, but if that was the case the starter would spin but the disco would get no fuel. I'm sure though that the spider did something else as well on another circuit so I guess the most likely thing would be to stop the starter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 The common fault caused by the spider is that it fails to open the stop solenoid, but if that was the case the starter would spin but the disco would get no fuel. I'm sure though that the spider did something else as well on another circuit so I guess the most likely thing would be to stop the starter Breaking the crank circuit is just as common in my experience. A guide to doing it is also on this forum http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Ah, that's where it was - I was looking for that guide as that is the one I followed. Link updated to show that thread, thanks BogMonster and in that case tricky, it does look like it's the spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 hi i have read about the spider issue with 300 tdi discovery and was wondering if anybody thinks that is what could be causing my problem .my 1996 300 tdi discovery is used all week monday to friday to get to work and home again with no problems , but when the weekend comes and its used off road ,splashing thru puddles and a bit of mud i get the same problem keep happening if i turn it off . when i turn the ignition back on and wait for the glow plug light to go out then turn the key to start the engine nothing happens , the engine wont turn over , everything that should work with the ignition on does work , wipers, fan,radio , headlights etc but it wont turn the engine over , i was lucky today as i stopped on a hill and rolled it down to bump start it which it did ok and ran as normal . does this sound like it could be the spider , i am trying to work out why it doesnt do it all week when used on the road but does it weekends when i go off road - it cant be the spider is getting wet as i think its buried deep inside the dash behind the radio isnt it ? under the bonnet is obviously getting wetter when i go off road and i was wondering if its something under the bonnet ?? any ideas much appreciated thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hi I had all the same problems as you, tried everything,in the end another earth lead from battery neutral to engine block (air con mounting. 4 unused tappings did the trick) Completely cured. Try it first easy route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stageonesimmo Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) Trogers is on the right route for me - I cant see the relation between it getting wet and the spider playing up, (it lives behind the dash in the warm, dry cab for a start),. My spider was playing up and it would do with NO pattern at all - it was the starter side of the thing that was playing up and a re-solder cured it, but this is different. Seems to me that its water in the starter solenoid through a bad seal/grommet or its the engine earth braid breaking down which can get worse when wet (shouldn't really as water conducts) I'd go for a jump lead from block to battery neg post next time it happens - if it fires up then its the earth, if it doesn't whip the starter off and have a peek in the solenoid then clean it and seal the thing with silicaset.......... By all means invest in a by-pass plug, but I wouldn't go ripping the dash apart just yet - why remove a perfectly servicable anti-theft device before you've exhausted everything else?.... edited to cure wonky spelling. Edited January 22, 2008 by stageonesimmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I can not work out why it runs perfect all week then when it gets wet it plays up , I know that the spider lives in the dry and warm behind the dash so I cant work out why it would be the spider . I have taken off the hoses around the starter and checked the wiring on the starter and everything looks ok , all the connections are good and tight , I also cleaned them up a bit with a small wire brush . this problem has never happened during the week when its used on the road it always happens off road which is annoying because i have to watch where i turn it off incase it doesnt start again . I have ordered a spider bypass connection but I dont think its going to cure it , I have had a look at the earth leads , theres one going from the block near the starter motor to the body , that one seems ok , I will put another lead from the battery to the block and see if that helps . thanks for your help . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeagent Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 the earth braid that runs between the starter motor and the chassis are notoriously carp, you could replace it with a new item made from a short length of battery cable, or add a second earth link between the powertrain and Chassis (i've done both, no more starting problems now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 the earth braid that runs between the starter motor and the chassis are notoriously carp, you could replace it with a new item made from a short length of battery cable, or add a second earth link between the powertrain and Chassis (i've done both, no more starting problems now) hi thanks for your reply, i have heard a lot about bad earth connections , does anybody know how many earth connections there are from the engine to the bodywork , also which one or ones would you suggest i change first to make a difference . " stageonesimmo " suggested sealing the starter , not sure what this means , could somebody explain a bit more please . thanks for all your help with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stageonesimmo Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Tricky, The solenoid has holes in it where water can get in wreak havoc - the mounting screws, the cable grommets etc. Take the motor off, take off the solenoid - nowt too it, not at all scary to do, give it all a good clean out and get rid of all the grit and water that may well be in there, then when you re-build it seal all the mating faces, holes, grommets etc with silicon sealer to keep it nice and dry........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trogers Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Hi I think (don't know 4 sure) if you have a proper earth strap made up and connect from battery neutral to engine block it overrides all other earth connections. It worked for me 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stageonesimmo Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Thats correct as the current will take the path of least resistance - hence my suggestion of using a jump lead from block to battery next time the fault occurs in order to be certain that it is the fault............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynall Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I dont think 300 has a braided lead, the earth comes from the neg on the battery to the inner wing then carries on to the engine in one complete assy, not to say its okay of course, the 200tdi used to have the braided earth from nearside body to engine. Lynall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 I dont think 300 has a braided lead, the earth comes from the neg on the battery to the inner wing then carries on to the engine in one complete assy, not to say its okay of course, the 200tdi used to have the braided earth from nearside body to engine.Lynall on my disco the earth lead from the battery negative terminal isnt braided , it goes down to the wing then onto the block , i have looked at the briaded one by the starter motor and it does look ok but i will try putting another lead from the battery to the block to see if that sorts it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.