P38 Woes

[Mr Bean]

I want to buy a Defender the mrs wants a P38 so i'm going to ignore the "LRO" horror tales for now and ask some simple questions from the best people in the know.

The owners.

Q1. What are the issues with the 4.6/4.0 V8 petrol engine suffering porous blocks caused by a cylinder liner problem? can someone explain it simple terms please?

Q2. Does the 4wd setup use a Viscous coupling? If so what is the reliability like? I will be using 85% on road and 30% of that will be towing a trailer/caravan.

Q3. Body Electronic Control Module doing random things i.e. unlocking the car? Is there a fix?

Q4. Air suspension failure. Is best to just replace with coils when it fails or is it worth the expense?

Q5. Is the diesel engine under powered for this car?

Q6. What is the typical mpg for petrol/diesel?

Any other problems i should look for if i buy one?

All replies are recieved gratefully this is my first time venturing away from a utillity model for a long time, so is it a good move?

Many thanks,

[q-rover]

You should probably have a read here

I have had mine for about 18months now, I got it relatively cheap, but it had faults and I was aware

of this. It is still very much a DIY car, but to make life a lot easier, factor in the cost of a MSV diagnostics

unit from BlackBoxSolutions. This is a complete diagnostic equipment and will make you independant

of garages if you get hard faults that disable the vehicle.

The EAS is also quite a simple system if you sit down and learn about it, again very much DIy'able

and replacing airbags takes half the time of replacing coils on a classic. If you need new airbags

look into Arnott Industries.

However buy the best one you can find/afford as fixing them can get pricey. But there aren't many

cars that can match them for comfort and offroad ability.

[Mr Bean]

Thanks for the reply.

What about the chassis?

Is it a monocoque design or does it have a separate chassis?

Are they available as a replacement like on the defender?

[q-rover]

Seperate like the Defender DiscoII, etc.

Don't know if you can get replacements, but they tend not to rust as badly.

However I have, and will continue to, treat mine.

[Escape]

I want to buy a Defender the mrs wants a P38 so i'm going to ignore the "LRO" horror tales for now and ask some simple questions from the best people in the know.

The owners.

Q1. What are the issues with the 4.6/4.0 V8 petrol engine suffering porous blocks caused by a cylinder liner problem? can someone explain it simple terms please?

Q2. Does the 4wd setup use a Viscous coupling? If so what is the reliability like? I will be using 85% on road and 30% of that will be towing a trailer/caravan.

Q3. Body Electronic Control Module doing random things i.e. unlocking the car? Is there a fix?

Q4. Air suspension failure. Is best to just replace with coils when it fails or is it worth the expense?

Q5. Is the diesel engine under powered for this car?

Q6. What is the typical mpg for petrol/diesel?

Any other problems i should look for if i buy one?

All replies are recieved gratefully this is my first time venturing away from a utillity model for a long time, so is it a good move?

Many thanks,

I have both a Defender and P38a and have used both for towing, so will gladly share my findings.

Q1: The GEMS controlled V8s run lean in midrange, which can lead to higher blocktemperatures and slipped liners. The block itself is not porous (it's almost identical to the 3.9), but the standard liners can leak. ECU-remapping is supposed to be the answer, but like any Rover V8, with proper care they should last and last...

Q2: The transfer box is the same as in the later Classics, with a viscous coupling. As most P38a's see little or no offroad, there are few problems with it. It also adds to the comfortable ride both on and off the road, as power distribution is automatic. (mind you, I do prefer the LT320 myself)

Q3: I experienced no problems with the BECM and find it both reliable and easy to use. The HVAC system is less robuust, unfortunately.

Q4: EAS is a must, don't go and castrate a P38a just because you don't understand the system. In fact, the EAS is the reasing I drive a P38a and not a Classic. I absolutely love it, both on and off the road.

It's also excellent for towing, levelling the car indepent of rear axle load and allowing you to adjust ride height to keep the trailer level as wel.

As Q-rover said, Arnott or Rover-Renovations is the place to be for DIY maintenance.

Q5: Before I got my 4.6, I had a diesel. I used it for work, towing trailers around 2 tonnes. It needs some revs and anticipating to cope, but in a manual this isn't much of a problem. The automatic struggles more. It's a good car for cruising, but don't expect breath-taking performance.

Off course, the V8 performs better.

When chosing between a Defender or a P3a for towing, I would take the P38a for longer distances but the Defender for city, heavy traffic or construction sites, as it's lower gears help pulling away. In a P38a you cannot shift from low to high on the move, which can be very usefull sometimes.

Q6: The 2.5DT used about 10-11l/100km (including towing), now my better halve drives it and she only needs 9-9.5l/100km to get to work.

The 4.6 V8 uses between 18 and 28l/100km, varying greatly with traffic, speed (anthing upward of 120km/h) and terrain (quite thirsty offroad).

I am running LPG and the engine needed a tune up. I expect to consistently better 20l/100km after the rebuild I am undertaking (that is if I can resist using the extra power...)

[Mr Bean]

Thank you for that very detailed answer it is much appreciated.

What sort of cost is cylinder liner modification?

Thanks,

[Escape]

Thank you for that very detailed answer it is much appreciated.

What sort of cost is cylinder liner modification?

Thanks,

You're most welcome.

I have no idea of the cost of stepped liners. It doesn't seem like a DIY job to me, so I hope when I remove the heads on mine I'll find the liners still intact and in place.

[Mr Bean]

Do you run a standard ECU or is yours chipped/mapped or replaced?

[Escape]

Do you run a standard ECU or is yours chipped/mapped or replaced?

At the moment all my cars run standard ECU's, and not really had a reason for upgrading.

I am considering remapping the V8 after the rebuild (supposed to be recommended for running LPG), but not sure it's worth the expense.

I would never think of remapping the diesel, after 330000 km running great, it can't be a good thing to start tinkering with it.

[Mr Bean]

It sounds like you have some good motors there.

Thanks for the info it has been very helpful.

[Escape]

It sounds like you have some good motors there.

I can't complain really.

My Defender was bought new and did everything I asked it. It does need constant attention, but that's only because I can't stop working on it.

The P38a diesel had the most miles, but gives me the least troubles. Only regular maintenance and some wear and tear (alternator, PAS-pump, airbags... nothing too bad really).

The V8 does have me worried a bit. I bought it with an oil leak, managed to cure that pretty good, then the windows started failing, now the engine is playing up... But if it runs, it garantees a grin from ear to ear.

[newbieUK]

Thank you for that very detailed answer it is much appreciated.

What sort of cost is cylinder liner modification?

Thanks,

At the time of looking a few years ago all the rebuilders were roughly the same price, I opted for a short engine from v8 developments (approx £2500)

[Dave W]

I'll second what escape said and add...

I run a 4.0l (the Thor engine), been a good reliable motor over the last 3 years, only costs have been petrol and servicing.

The viscous box is a LOT quieter than the LT230, which is the main reason they used it.

Fuel consumption on the 4.0 is between 18 and 24 MPG 24 on a motorway run at around 80MPH, 18 around town.

Towing a caravan is effortless, I much prefer towing with the P38 rather than either of my Defenders, just remember to lock the suspension so it doesn't go into cruise mode when you're towing (just use the manual switch on the dash). It really is a case of you just not noticing the caravan is there, the MPG is good too, probably because I go a bit slower

I was originally looking for a 4.6 but am glad I went for the 4.0 now.

[newbieUK]

I'll second what escape said and add...

I run a 4.0l (the Thor engine), been a good reliable motor over the last 3 years, only costs have been petrol and servicing.

The viscous box is a LOT quieter than the LT230, which is the main reason they used it.

Fuel consumption on the 4.0 is between 18 and 24 MPG 24 on a motorway run at around 80MPH, 18 around town.

Towing a caravan is effortless, I much prefer towing with the P38 rather than either of my Defenders, just remember to lock the suspension so it doesn't go into cruise mode when you're towing (just use the manual switch on the dash). It really is a case of you just not noticing the caravan is there, the MPG is good too, probably because I go a bit slower

I was originally looking for a 4.6 but am glad I went for the 4.0 now.

I run the 4.6 THOR and although it initially cost me a fair chunk of money due to it not be properly looked after by the previous owner, I can report in the last 2 years of ownership the only cost I've had (apart from the usual service items and general wear and tear things like track rod ends) is a new MAFF sensor at a cost of £89 which to be honest is pretty good going (although initially it did cost me £4k for a new engine and ancillaries) Again mine is LPG converted and apart from the anual LPG service at the same time as the MOT I've not had any problems. I use the car as my every day car doing some 20000+ miles each year, and she's currently sitting at 115000 miles on the clock. Starts first time every time and it's a really nice place to be especially on long cruises. They're relatively easy to work on (especially it you invest in a MSV system or something similar) the general wear and tear parts are cheap and easy to come by and the question Would I own another? ........most definitely..........which I think in itself speaks volumes.