pigster Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Ok.. here goes - very odd this one, well I think it is anyway.. Just redone the timing on my 90 200tdi def engine. And whilst doing that I have swapped out the fuel pump, with one from a 200tdi disco engine. I also took the head off and redid the valve seals and decoked the whole lot and job done. When I got her going the first time after re-assemble she was lovely - picked up well and she sounded great, However the 90 has not been driven for 3 weeks or so over christmas and for some reason she didn't want to start at all. She just turned over but no fuel was getting threw. Changed the solinoid over, and hey presto.. she fires first time sorta (a bit of unexpected chugging and coffing and lots of white smoke firstly, followed by some blue) but it settles after about 5 seconds engine running. Seemed to smoke more when reved. After first ignition it works a treate once more, and you can start stop her as much as you want. However this morning.. same sorta issue - didn't want to start, had to leave the starter motor running whilst she coffed and spluttered. and again lots of smoke - blue and white. However 10 seconds of driving down the road (if that) and not a single bit of unwanted exhaust.. and she drove well. I wouldn't say the pickup in speed was great but overall very good compared to the old pump which was knackered. (there again - I am running 35" tyres) Any help would be good.. give me something to go on.. Cheers. Is it timing? Have a managed to miss time it some how.. not sure how though? or is it because the disco pump is tweeked a little different to standard 90 tdi's.. ??? Cheers in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Don't know if this will help but, had a similar problem when I fitted the 300Tdi into my 90. It would start OK but would not run until it had been revved for a few seconds. Turned out it was a oneway valve in the fuel filter housing was sticking. In my case it was sticking open and allowing fuel to drain back to the tank overnight. Next morning it starts on what bit of fuel was left in the pump and then needs to wait for the fuel system to self bleed. When running it sometimes lacked power as the valve was not letting enough fuel through. First fix was to remove the one way valve. This fixed the running problem but not the starting. Next step was to replace the fuel filter housing with the correct 300Tdi version. Since the new housing was fitted it starts first time without glowplugs and runs fine. HTH Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 One way valve - - hmm . .. don't know if there is one - - I assume that isn't that same as the stop solinoid? If it isn't the same then it would be work checking that out. cheers for that Ivan. Don't know if this will help but, had a similar problem when I fitted the 300Tdi into my 90. It would start OK but would not run until it had been revved for a few seconds. Turned out it was a oneway valve in the fuel filter housing was sticking. In my case it was sticking open and allowing fuel to drain back to the tank overnight. Next morning it starts on what bit of fuel was left in the pump and then needs to wait for the fuel system to self bleed. When running it sometimes lacked power as the valve was not letting enough fuel through. First fix was to remove the one way valve. This fixed the running problem but not the starting. Next step was to replace the fuel filter housing with the correct 300Tdi version. Since the new housing was fitted it starts first time without glowplugs and runs fine.HTH Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 The valve lives in one of the connectors that go into the top of the fuel filter housing. I can't remember which one it is (I assume it will be the input from the lift pump). Definitely not the stop solenoid in my case. HTH Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Have you checked the glow plugs are working correctly? Whilst you may have had a fault with the stop solenoid, you may also have a problem with the glow plugs. Your current starting symptoms sound very much like one or several glow plugs are not working correctly. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 have not even considered them... However it does seem a little odd that they would die all of a suddon.. I shall disconnect them completely and see if it makes any difference.. The fuel factor is that there be stuff coming out when I use the manual pump and leave the filter valve open - you can see it coming out, however if just didn't get to the injectors (I assume I have solved that little issue) the next easy job is the glow plugs then... Cheers so far... If anything else springs to mind please tell us... Have you checked the glow plugs are working correctly?Whilst you may have had a fault with the stop solenoid, you may also have a problem with the glow plugs. Your current starting symptoms sound very much like one or several glow plugs are not working correctly. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 First. Check ALL pipes that you have disturbed when you changed the pump. Check that olives/unions aren't split. I can't remember what the pipes are fitted with so I'll go through what I think is the lot. Olives.Check that they don't twist on any plastic pipe. Check that any pipe fitted with olives has the brass insert inside the plastic pipe. Banjo unions.Check that they are clean and tight and that washers are fitted.If aluminium washers they should have been renewed as a matter of course. Unions.Check for splits. Pipes If you have them off.One end in your mouth and a finger over the other end. Now suck.Tongue into pipe.You should be able to hold the pipe with your tongue for ten seconds. Heater plugs. I'm nt convinced here. However remove them and check each one with a length of wire on a battery.Don't burn your fingers. LOL Lift pump. It's not unkown for these to fail.Even if they apear to bleed OK.The 200Tdi system is self purging so no priming of the lift pump should be necessary. Id be going for lift pump. I have been known to be wrong though !!!!! I'm also concerned about the white/blue smoke. White smoke is water/steam. Blue is oil. HTH I eat rat poison mike I can cause trouble in an empty house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 thanks for that.. As you say the smoke issue does concern me a tad.. I hope the gasket hasn't gone bad on me already - - I followed the sequence to the dot so I should be ok thats the only place were water can get in. Plus all the smoke and stuff goes away after 10 seconds if not less of use. I better check the oil/water later just to make sure it isn't the head gasket. Lift pump... hmm.. I'll save that job for the weekend me thinks.. I'll check the other bits first I reckon. Cheers for that. First.Check ALL pipes that you have disturbed when you changed the pump. Check that olives/unions aren't split. I can't remember what the pipes are fitted with so I'll go through what I think is the lot. Olives.Check that they don't twist on any plastic pipe. Check that any pipe fitted with olives has the brass insert inside the plastic pipe. Banjo unions.Check that they are clean and tight and that washers are fitted.If aluminium washers they should have been renewed as a matter of course. Unions.Check for splits. Pipes If you have them off.One end in your mouth and a finger over the other end. Now suck.Tongue into pipe.You should be able to hold the pipe with your tongue for ten seconds. Heater plugs. I'm nt convinced here. However remove them and check each one with a length of wire on a battery.Don't burn your fingers. LOL Lift pump. It's not unkown for these to fail.Even if they apear to bleed OK.The 200Tdi system is self purging so no priming of the lift pump should be necessary. Id be going for lift pump. I have been known to be wrong though !!!!! I'm also concerned about the white/blue smoke. White smoke is water/steam. Blue is oil. HTH I eat rat poison mike I can cause trouble in an empty house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 PM to you if I can work out how to..LOL I eat rat poison mike I can cause trouble in an empty house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 White smoke is also unbrunt diesel fuel, if the pump timing is 1 tooth out will get a engine that runs badly & smokes a lot, wonder how I found that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonPearson Posted January 9, 2006 Share Posted January 9, 2006 Lift pump not working coirrectly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 thanks for that..As you say the smoke issue does concern me a tad.. I hope the gasket hasn't gone bad on me already - - I followed the sequence to the dot so I should be ok thats the only place were water can get in. Plus all the smoke and stuff goes away after 10 seconds if not less of use. I better check the oil/water later just to make sure it isn't the head gasket. Lift pump... hmm.. I'll save that job for the weekend me thinks.. I'll check the other bits first I reckon. Cheers for that. Did you know you can get the injection pump pin into the wrong place ??? Well I did but the engine wouldn't start!!! I eat rat poison mike I can cause trouble in an empty house !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigster Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 yes, I learnt that one the hard way many a year ago now... myself and my dad thought we got it right and it turned out we hadn't it took us 4 attempts to figure out why then we notice that the pin went in about an inch further than before and didn't move any more - well and truely wedged - it worked that time. However this time round - - its all in the right place I am sure of it.. Starting her this morning was a lot better.. I left the glow plugs do there stuff for about 5-8seconds before starting and it was a lot better - less white smoke. However I seem to be getting a lot of blue smoke still, but again it disappears after a couple of second being reved or driven. I assume my valve stem seals just are not working? I ahve checked the oil and water and they are not contaminated . .so I don't think the head gasket has anything to do with it. I will get a compression test done on it and see what comes of it. I may still ring you mmgemini - thanks for the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Just be careful tomorrow. I'm at the doctors tomorrow afternoon at three ish!! I eat rat poison mike I can cause trouble in an empty house !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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