Tough books???

[Steve 90]

Sorry, I know it off topic but this is probably the only place I can think of with people that are in the know so please bear with me.

In need of a new Laptop for work. Until now ive been running an old Dell Latitude which has been brilliant really. Struggles now as its basically too slow which is causing a lot of frustration, Battery life is getting worse (and was never that great) plus there are a few dodgy keys of late and the touch pad has now decided to play up. So Ive decided I have had enough and want to get a fresh one ordered.

As said the Dell has been great other than getting out of date and in many years of abuse has stood up to it reasonably well for what it cost.

I have considered a Tough Book as they seem to be the ones that people in the Motor trade use most but they seem to be £££££££'s. Is it worth the extra?

Also Im far from a computer expert so any pointers in what I might need and what I need to avoid would be great.

Its mostly used to

*run various code reading, diagnostic and live data software That require XP.

*Run a Pico scope.

*Run Autodata and similar technical data programs.

*Email and Internet (so must also have Wireless networking)

None of the above (I believe, But I am a computer idiot) Need huge amount of processor power. But I dont want the Laptop to be very slow waiting for pages to load. I very often end up flicking back and forward between Pin data and wiring diagrams etc and the present one drives me nuts waiting. Also It could do with a bit of reserve to keep it a little "future proof" if possible as the programs we are using seem to be moving on quickly (The dell ran everything I needed without problem a few years back)

Budget???? I will pay for what I need but not keen on going too over the top. With the way the country/economy is looking to be heading I think its probably wise not to be too keen to spend.

So any advice? Go for a reasonable new Dell or similar as It will probably last a few years ok or get a second hand Tough book???? What sort of Processor, Ram etc etc should be looking for(sorry I know ive been a bit vauge but thats because I dont know)? What to avoid?

Many thanks in advance.

Steve.

[lansalot]

May be worth considering one with a solid-state hard disk (SSD, no moving parts = no head crashing into the platters). They are a bit more expensive, but they should last longer if you're bumping it around a lot.

As for processor, the usual rule applies - as much as you can afford ! Memory, 2gb minimum I would say and preferably 4gb if you're going to have a few apps open. Pound for pound, the Core2Duo processors offer the best performance for the money. Reasonably economical to run too..

For what you want, the above might help narrow the choices a bit.

If you're not too bothered about the SSD, then I would still recommend Dell. Only you can decide on whether you're really going to need the physical protection the toughbook offers.

If you pull up any likely candidates, feel free to post specs for an expert-eye over them

Also, be aware of any particular hardware/software requirements the software you need to run has (I have no idea what Picoscope etc is, but frequently, stuff in the trade such as Microcat requires some hefty protection such as a hardware dongle). You might find that you are limited to finding a laptop with a legacy parallel port connector for example, or have some app that is only compatible with Windows XP (not Vista).

[FridgeFreezer]

Depends on what spec your Dell is and what your budget is, and whether you actually need a toughbook.

Toughbooks have some nice features and obviously are tougher than stock laptops, but you also trade-off some things such as weight and performance/cost.

Needing Windows XP will put the cheaper Toughbooks & copies out, it's possible to get XP running on them but if you're not computer savvy I doubt you'd want the hassle. You can buy a brand new notebook with good spec for about £300 (f'rexample from Novatech), last time I looked you're looking near double that for a used toughbook that comes anywhere near.

The CF18 is a sweet unit, if not as butch as the older ones, but they're pricey, around £1k last time I looked, and the screen is tiny although quite high resolution.

I run OziExplorer, MegaTune, Firefox and Thunderbird, including wireless networking, on an IX250 which is very similar to a CF27. 850MHz, 256Mb RAM and a ~30Gb hard drive. It's not superfast but it does the job and was cheap enough that I won't cry too much if it dies or gets nicked.

[Steve 90]

Thankyou Guys.

Well from what you have said I think that I will probably give the tough book a miss. The more rugged construction would be nice but I can probably buy 2+ Dell or similar for the same price and the current one has lasted quite a few years.

Just checked and the Dell is

Pentium3 1000mhz / 727mhz 128mb Ram.

It runs barely OK on mains but seems poor on battery (does it run slower on battery? Is that what the 727mhz means?) So what should I be looking for?

[Steve 90]

What about something like this

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products...;l=en&s=bsd

or this

http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products...;l=en&s=bsd

Any idea what the spec/speed of these would be like?

I do need a reasonable screen so I can see scope traces from the far side of an engine bay or on the passenger seat while road testing. Also as many USB ports as poss would be handy.

Fridge, Just off to look at the site you have linked, Any recomendations from that site??

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/range.h...iness&r=X15 ??

or

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/range.h...iness&r=E15 ??

Cheers.

Steve.

[Hendrik]

bought a new CF19 toughbook from http://www.fullyruggeddepot.com/ a couple of months ago, very nice service and good prices for new and used (refurbished) ones.

Hendrik

[jil6939]

I see you seem to have gone off them already but if it helps you feel any better our Coms Dept use Toughbooks offshore and don't rate them at all but it is a harsh enviroment out here.

[FridgeFreezer]

Fridge, Just off to look at the site you have linked, Any recomendations from that site??

You can't go too far wrong with those guys, pick a price and buy whatever's nearest that fits your needs.

Some laptops do slow down on battery but you can change that in the BIOS or power saving settings.

[lansalot]

Hi

I wouldn't worry about the slowing-down speed when on battery too much - most laptops these days can be configured to ramp-up with power-on-demand.

One thing I would say - you are looking at 15" screens, so I hope your eyesight is good from across the other side of the engine bay

Check out the Dell Vostro range as well - they are more business oriented and tend to work out a bit more bang-for-the-buck than the "home" range.

[lansalot]

Pentium3 1000mhz / 727mhz 128mb Ram.

Sorry, I missed the above. If you can, double the RAM - it should help a lot. Simple test, if the hard disk light is flickering a hell of a lot, even when you're not appearing to be doing much, then that generally indicates a RAM shortage. 128mb ram is the barest minimum for XP, and I wouldn't entertain working with XP on less than 512mb.

Try the memory upgrade advisor at www.crucial.com/uk on it, just out of interest. It could be you can give it a good shot in the arm for £20 (if nothing else, it will make the machine more re-sellable)...

[Steve 90]

I was looking go for the latatude as when I orriginally bought mine they said it was a more rugidized laptop than the others, Probably not true though.

Good point with the screen, The 15inch I have now is a bit of a pain but the Lats dont seem to do bigger. So would something like this do the job http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products...;l=en&s=bsd . It looks to be a much higher spec'd machine than the ones above but much less money? Have I missed something??

[David Sparkes]

Just watching you go through the pain on this one, but wrt "have I missed something":

Screen size has been mentioned before, 15" OK, 17" better, but what screen resolution are you working with at the moment? Possibly 1024 x 768, I think going up in numbers (1280 x 1024) is going to be bad news (in your circumstances), but wait for the specialists to comment.

That Vostro is 17" WIDESCREEN, are you comfortable with the widescreen format?

It's also a very fine resolution (1440 x 900 ), making everything 'small', which I don't think you want for viewing 'across the engine bay'.

Have you checked your applications for Vista compatability?

HTH

[FridgeFreezer]

It's also a very fine resolution (1440 x 900 ), making everything 'small', which I don't think you want for viewing 'across the engine bay'.

You can always set the resolution lower in Windows to make everything look bigger, but you can't make a small screen bigger.

[Steve 90]

Have you checked your applications for Vista compatability?

HTH

I have and most of them arn't compatible. I really dont want Vista. Surely they will be able to supply running XP or is that not likely?

[Steve 90]

Anybody see any reason against the Vostro with 17" screen? Any better ideas?

Any idea what the difference is in these - Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Mini Card Wireless,

Dell Wireless 1505 Wireless-N Mini Card, Intel® Pro/Wireless 3945 802.11 a/g Mini Card Wireless,

Intel® 4965AGN Wireless-N Mini Card?

A decent wireless conection is quite important as it will be used all over the workshop and the one at pressent gets a bit poor at the far end.

Cheers.

Steve.

[lansalot]

That Vostro is a good machine, plenty memory, decent sized screen and has the option of an XP install with accompanying Vista media for an extra £60.

Should be a cracker - if you can afford it, and if you want it, go for the internal Geforce graphics. Makes watching the occasional DVD or game possible. Internal Intel graphics suck for pretty much anything except basic software.

I'd probably also go for the 1920x1080 as well, and definitely go for the 2048mb (1x2048mb) memory option (don't go for 2x1024mb - you'll fill both slots and have no upgrade path).

While you can set a lower resolution thus "upping" the size, this tends to make things just a little blurrier. With LCD, it's always best to go for the native resolution, and again that amount of pixels would be better pushed along by the Geforce.

[David Sparkes]

You can always set the resolution lower in Windows to make everything look bigger, but you can't make a small screen bigger.

Agreed, PROVIDING the screen will work well at the lower resolution. I have in mind that external flat screens have an 'optimum' resolution, move away from that and clarity is lost. I don't know if this limitation applies to modern laptop screens, which is why I mentioned it, and hoped for someone with the relevant knowledge / experience to speak up.

Regards.

[David Sparkes]

I have and most of them arn't compatible. I really dont want Vista. Surely they will be able to supply running XP or is that not likely?

Looking at the Tech Specs page for that PC, they seem to offer various Operating System options, but I didn't check if this affected prices etc.

Operating System

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate

Genuine Windows Vista® Business

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate with XP Professional Downgrade Service

Genuine Windows Vista® Business with XP Professional Downgrade Service

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium

I assume the XP downgrade is what you are looking for, but you'd have to follow the Learn More link for the detail.

Alternatively, I'm sure someone could install XP for you, but that would be an off-list conversation.

I can't comment on any of the other options, although I see lansalot has picked up on some of them.

Regards.

[Steve 90]

Its looking like the vostro, only thing I am a little worried about now is the screen, Particularily the wide screen bit.

Im going to have a bit more of a look at the site Fridgefreezer posted before I decide. Looks like there arn't that many 17" options with either make.

Any bodyany ideas what all this bellow means?

Any idea what the difference is in these - Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Mini Card Wireless,

Dell Wireless 1505 Wireless-N Mini Card, Intel® Pro/Wireless 3945 802.11 a/g Mini Card Wireless,

Intel® 4965AGN Wireless-N Mini Card?

A decent wireless conection is quite important as it will be used all over the workshop and the one at pressent gets a bit poor at the far end.

Cheers.

Steve.

[Steve 90]

Looking at the Tech Specs page for that PC, they seem to offer various Operating System options, but I didn't check if this affected prices etc.

Operating System

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate

Genuine Windows Vista® Business

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic

Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate with XP Professional Downgrade Service

Genuine Windows Vista® Business with XP Professional Downgrade Service

Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium

I assume the XP downgrade is what you are looking for, but you'd have to follow the Learn More link for the detail.

Alternatively, I'm sure someone could install XP for you, but that would be an off-list conversation.

I can't comment on any of the other options, although I see lansalot has picked up on some of them.

Regards.

I was justreading that and it looks like its a few quid more. Might instal XP myself although its probably easier just to go for the XP downgrade as you mention. Seems crazy they just cant send you xp, Tho I supose they dont want to.

[lansalot]

I was justreading that and it looks like its a few quid more. Might instal XP myself although its probably easier just to go for the XP downgrade as you mention. Seems crazy they just cant send you xp, Tho I supose they dont want to.

You can blame Microsoft for that. They really don't want people buying XP any more. If you have an unactivated XP license, go for it. XP is more and more snotty these days about activation and WGA and such. You can buy a genuine XP home for around £50 at www.scan.co.uk, but at the price you're as well including it from Dell.

I wouldn't put any great weight in one wireless card being any better than another. It's more likely that one (default) is built-in and the others are PCMCIA option cards. You can always stick a wireless repeater in if you're a bit stuck (~£15).

Don't worry about the screen - even when not at optimal resolution, it will still be fine for the distance you'll be reading from. You can also run it at 1920x1080 and have large fonts enabled, which makes life a bit easier. To get an idea, try setting your current laptop down to say, 800x600 and notice how the sharpness deteriorates slightly. At a distance it won't make much difference.

Always easier to reduce than blow up, better quality.

[JST]

Get a toughbook then you can run it as an incar PC for the 2 dayer too with X-Nav...

i have a CF18 and its brilliant takes the knocks etc and plenty quick enough to run word, excel, firefox etc with built in GPS and touch screen it fulfills most needs, and battery does about 4-5hrs. Certianly good kit in my opinion if not a little £££

[JST]

Forgot to add that i am not implying X-Nav would be of any use on the 2 dayer or anything along those lines.................................. but i think an updated working copy would be useful.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Steve,

Also don't forget your going Megasquirt, as such you need a serial port.

Yes, you can use USB adatpters or even PCMCIA cards but belive me when I say they are a GIANT PITFA compared with a serial ported PC Laptop

And there are not many new PCs that have serial as std, toughbooks often do have and so do Tecra Toshibas, which Are lovely machines, some come with disks so you can back load XP instread of Vista should you wish.

The advice given to me re laptop purchae was spend as much as you have to to get a decent brand name and spec and no more, as within 2 years it will be outdated, as such I bought IBM T20s and T21 23 etc for MS backloaded them with 98 and 2000 and found that they are quick if internet is not required .

Just a thought and some ramblings from a similarly IT challenged member of LR4x4

Nige

[Steve 90]

Steve,

Also don't forget your going Megasquirt, as such you need a serial port.

Yes, you can use USB adatpters or even PCMCIA cards but belive me when I say they are a GIANT PITFA compared with a serial ported PC Laptop

And there are not many new PCs that have serial as std,

Nige

Bu**er, Good call there Nige. I was just about to press the BUY button but thought I'd just check back to see if anyone had posted anything else! I'll go have a look but I didn't see an option for Serial so I may have to re think again. Hope there is an option as I'd made up my mind and thought I could forget about it all.