Jason2 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Hi Chaps Bought a series 3 109 2 1/4 diesel to do up that had been stuck in a field for 10 years, after a bit of farting about bleeding injectors etc I managed to get the old girl going and she ran like clock work! Not started her since (a month or so) and now when you start her she smokes and when you take the breather off the rocker cover there is massive pressure that feels humide!Dont know if she uses water as some of the pipes leak.No mayo on oil filler cap,oil in water etc.... So I thinks that the head gasket has gone, the bit that was leaking oil/water into cylinders was plugged with rust and has since opened up again! Any thoughts? Cheers Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Whichever it is - you will need to take the head off anyway. If rings are stuck from the engine standing for a while, then they either stay stuck, release after a short while, or break. Plain water left in an engine that then doesn't run for a while can cause all sorts of problems - rust build-up inside the engine block can restrict water flow, create hot-spots, block the thermostat, rot through core plugs, etc, etc. I wouls say take the head off and see what you can see. Piston kits are only about £25 each anyway and not a lot more work to fit them if you don't need a rebore. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4.6-90 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Whichever it is - you will need to take the head off anyway. If rings are stuck from the engine standing for a while, then they either stay stuck, release after a short while, or break. Plain water left in an engine that then doesn't run for a while can cause all sorts of problems - rust build-up inside the engine block can restrict water flow, create hot-spots, block the thermostat, rot through core plugs, etc, etc. I wouls say take the head off and see what you can see. Piston kits are only about £25 each anyway and not a lot more work to fit them if you don't need a rebore.Les. in your case i would take head off buy a glaze buster from halfords or some where £20,and deglaze the bores, fit new piston rings and change valve stem oil seals as they are proberbly rotten new head gasket and bobs your watsit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Thanks for your replies! Thought as much but always nice to have comfirmation-No worries, will get the bit's ordered and next on the list after chassis welding, dumb irons etc........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Seeing as I've blown my mig welder up doing the chassis, had to get on with other stuff. So I whipped the head off this aftgernoon! Looks like it was blowing between all 4 cylinders from the head gasket. Filled all 4 pots up with diesel and it has'nt drained through rings yet (2hrs ago) so I dont think that the rings are are gummed up. Not had time to fully inspect yet but it does'nt look like water-ways/oil-ways were leaking which must mean that the valve seals have gone to cause all the smoke. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 That's the original copper head gasket. The staining looks normal 'heat effect' to me. The deck markings however - seem to say that it was sharing compression between No's 2 and 3 cylinders. The white rag on the right of the picture would have been blocking the inlet/exhaust ports. Also, the cylinder head is missing, which will significantly reduce the performance of the engine - (greatly increase fuel consuption, fail the MOT, sound a bit funny). See the exhaust manifold? try to bolt it to something related to the engine and you may be in with a fighting chance. Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 If its early 2.25 diesel might be worth fitting later valve guides with top hat seals while heads off . new h/gasket, bang it back together . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 If its early 2.25 diesel might be worth fitting later valve guides with top hat seals while heads off . new h/gasket, bang it back together . It's a 1979 2.25 diesel, I want to get a head gasket from paddocks as I have a load of other stuff to get from them but have this little voice in the back of my head (some say it's due to excess of red wine ) that says "Don't be a spupid git, it will be carp and you will only have it all to do again". Any one comfirm? If so anyone suggest where I can get a good gasket set sent out to France from? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Filled all 4 pots up with diesel and it has'nt drained through rings yet (2hrs ago) so I dont think that the rings are are gummed up.Thoughts? One thought. The rings are all gapped, which means that for the diesel not to have drained into the sump within the two hours, the gaps must be clogged. I suspect you might have coked pistons and rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciappi Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 if i am seeing well the gasket is broken from no4 cylinder to no8 valve guide hole that would cause alot of smoke in the engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 Snagger Dont know? All I can say is that when I had a look this morning all the diesel had drained out of the four pots! ciappi It's a copper gasket, 100% intact, no signs of water/oil leakages, looks like it's been blowing between pot's (especialy 2 & 3) but less reckons it could just be the heat? Had a valve out, they need lapping in again and the valve oil seals are well sloppy Probably going to have a bit of fun: strip it all down, clean, & polish all the ports etc......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I think if it had been blowing between pots you'd have some serious erosion of the gasket - copper is pretty soft, after all. I have no idea how long it normally takes to drain the diesel through the piston rings, but overnight is much longer than I'd expect (never having done it or heard of it as a test before) - I'd anticipate the bores draining in about half an hour. From the position you're in, it's not a great deal of extra work to remove the sump, pull the pistons and check the rings for coking. At least you'd have the peace of mind of showing I'm wrong! You'll need a torque wrench for the big end cap nuts, but you already need one for the head bolts. You'll also need a ring compressor. Bad valve stemn seals will cause oil burning. To replace them, you'll need a valve spring compressor so that you can remove the valve stemn collets, washers and springs to access the seals. Make sure you get decent replacements - there are plenty of bad pattern parts around. You can check the valve seats and guides while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkie2772 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 hi Jason i live in France too, I have had really good service from , lrparts perhaps you could give them a go all the best Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks chaps! How easy are the valve guides to change? hammer out or press? Where the hell do you get the valve seals from? I have had them before in a head gasket set but I can't seem to find them listed any where??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Buy a head set - it comes with a the head, rocker, thermostat, inlet/exhaust gaskets. Also injector and rocker cover sealing washers, plus valve stem seals. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Buy a head set - it comes with a the head, rocker, thermostat, inlet/exhaust gaskets. Also injector and rocker cover sealing washers, plus valve stem seals.Les. Cheers les That explains why I can't find any injector washers either if they are in with the head sets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Any one know if the valve guides will tap out or do they need a press? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I usually knock then out (carefully). If they break though, it takes some carefull drilling to remove the remains. You can make an extractor out of a long bolt or studding and some nuts/washers. They come out inwards (towards the bores). When you come to fit the new ones, heat the head up in the oven and put the guides in the freezer. Gently tap the new ones in - they will go in fairly easily, with some resistance. Be careful not to damage them though - they are quite soft metal (some kind of bronze I think) Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Thanks again Les Waiting for bit's now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 I usually knock then out (carefully). If they break though, it takes some carefull drilling to remove the remains. You can make an extractor out of a long bolt or studding and some nuts/washers. They come out inwards (towards the bores).When you come to fit the new ones, heat the head up in the oven and put the guides in the freezer. Gently tap the new ones in - they will go in fairly easily, with some resistance. Be careful not to damage them though - they are quite soft metal (some kind of bronze I think) Les. Sorry to contradicte you Les but the valve guides knock out away from the bores! or at least mine do! Inlet valve guides knocked out quite easily as they are quite short in comparison to the exhaust valve guides that properly won't budge-Not got access to a press either:angry: Valve seats are well shot at but will re-lap,one of the exhaust valves had taken a "Bing" on the seat lip,loads of carbon/oil behind the inlet valves and exhaust ports. Cleaned the head up, polished exhaust/inlet ports (well sort of,more like cleaned them) currently lapping valves in but stuck for changing exhaust valve guides as if I start realy tw*tting them to get them out they are just going to get damaged! and still not come out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've always knocked them out inwards ( I think ). Assuming that they would be fitted that way to prevent engine compression from moving them. I'm going to have to go and bash one out carefully remove one out now, just to see Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 I've always knocked them out inwards ( I think ). Assuming that they would be fitted that way to prevent engine compression from moving them. I'm going to have to go and bash one out carefully remove one out now, just to see Les Try a inlet valve guide and let me know what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I've got a couple of TD heads down the shed, so I will - tomorrow. It's taters out there, and I've been freezing all day Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 I've got a couple of TD heads down the shed, so I will - tomorrow. It's taters out there, and I've been freezing all day Les No worries Les sorted! Managed to get them out OK, knock out away from the bores You must have a big oven, head would'nt fit in ours so I put it in front of the fire, had to use a drill to lap valves in as they were that bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason2 Posted November 27, 2008 Author Share Posted November 27, 2008 All back together weeks ago and guess what? Smokes exactly the same as it did before!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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