Johnny Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Hi all My series 1961 series 2a keeps jumping out of second gear on deceleration As their is no syncromes on second Im told that the second gear can become damaged due to poor gear changes and simply old age. Ive also been told it might simply be the detent spring or worn selector falks or syncro sleeves The question I have as Ive never worked on a gearbox befor is where do I go from here? I got a sill y quote from a bloke from A + V gearboxs in Hitchin tellin me it would cost £600 quid in parts and quite a bit of labour at £50 an hour !!! then i checked out decent bloke Colin Whitehouse from Land rover transmission specialist in the West midlands who quoted me about £450 + VAT for a reconditioned box So Having tries Ashcrofts in Luton who tell me they dont touch series 2a's I need some advice Could it be repaired without taking it out Im up for having a go at some DIY but The only thing I think I could do is swap the whole thing at £450 quid ouch !! Your advice will be very welcome Regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Well, try the easy stuff first. If you hold the stick in place does it stay there easily enough? If so it could be the detent springs things. This is easy enough to fix. You've got to remove the transmission cover between the floor panels. This required removing the floor panels (I think). Have a look - they are held in place with some big screws - pour penetrating oil on them a week before you tackle them, cause they often seize solid and are a pig to shift. Once this panalage is gone you've got access to where the gearstick is bolted to the gearbox. This is a fairly simple metal frame/bracket, held on by 4 bolts. Benind this is a little raised square dome, immediately behind this, one on each side, are two little "L" shaped brackets, held on each by two bolts from the top. I think these retain the detent springs and ball bearings. Undo the bolts and , taking care to catch any springs etc, take out what is retained. Have a look and see what shape they are in (hopefully in poor condition), renew as necessary. rebuild and try it. It would help you greatly if you could down load the workshop manuals (google it) and borrow the haynes manual. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 As to the cost of a recon box - depends as to what you want from the landrover - keep it forever? If not then try a secondhand box, which could be worse! OR rebuild a secondhand box yourself? Or just live with it? Change the oil regular so it doesn't get worse. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Jumping out of second is one of the symptoms of a loose main shaft nut. Make sure the castellated nut on the back end of the shaft (inside the transfer box) is fully tight. If it has come loose, you may need a new lock tab washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 I spent the lunch break pooling over the haynes manual and as you say gazzar the best case senerio would apear to be the detent springs which case I feel confident in sorting When I got "Alfred" he came with a second gearbox jeez its heavy ! and this sit in the shed untouched un loved untill now I'm thinking go and have a play with it find the location of the detent springs have a look at their condition take this new found knowledge and do the same on the fitted gearbox Then have a look on the spare for the main shaft nut Thanks snagger This sound a little more complicated but still within my grasp Plenty to do then but could save me a small fortune The series 2a has become a member of the family and so its going to be for keeps The kind folks at Beds Herts and cambs LRC welcomed me to the Trials on Sunday and alougth I was unable to take part due to no front recovery points lack of additional plate to support rear tow hitch recovery point lose offside wheel bearing nothing holding the battery down !! past an MOT like that !! seat belts fastned to the wrong points (drilled to upstand behind seats) instead of brackets to major points and a lose steeering rod connection The scrutineering Marshall was impressed with job we had made on the new half chasie and the hardwood bumper and very very helpfull John Ralphs what a nice bloke ! It was great fun to watch and I would not have believed you could do what they were doing down some of the gates so now im bursting to get this little list sorted and have a go. now you know why I need second gear to work correctly Ill keep you up to date with my progress on the gear box and the trials so thank you for your help in pointing me in the right direction what a great bunch you are.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 That's the spirit! ease yourself into it, take your time and learn as you go! G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Read the section on reconditioning the 'box, and ask yourself 'what is the hardest part?' G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 nothing holding the battery down !! past an MOT like that !! So it should - it's not an MOT fail, it should be an advisory though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 seat belts fastned to the wrong points (drilled to upstand behind seats) instead of brackets to major points You got me worried now My 2a has got 3 point belts retro fitted, and the top fixing is into the corner of the bulkhead behind the seats just inboard of the hood stick. As mine is a soft top, there is nothing else to attach to in the area. It originally had lap belts which were replaced with the 3 point. If I were to enter into one of these events would mine fail too? If it still had the original lap belts would it pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well then Ive removed the floor, and located the detent springs checked them and to be honest their in pretty good shape. or at least the same as the ones within the spare box. So on to find the castle nut at the rear of the main shaft This is where I flumuxed myself removing the plate I thought it was underneath only to find something diffrent from the pics in the manual ?? lifted up a few other plates then whent back to the manual went through this process several times untill it dawned on me that because I have an overdrive fitted on the end of the main shaft that the castle nut won't be there Will there be some other nut after the over drive that may have come lose or is it becoming more ominous like a worn out gear ? Ive been recomended to a guy who works out of one of the outbuildings on the farm where we shoot so Im going to pay him a visit tommorow see what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 You got me worried now My 2a has got 3 point belts retro fitted, and the top fixing is into the corner of the bulkhead behind the seats just inboard of the hood stick. As mine is a soft top, there is nothing else to attach to in the area. It originally had lap belts which were replaced with the 3 point. If I were to enter into one of these events would mine fail too? If it still had the original lap belts would it pass? From what the marshall told me the bottom strap fixing that is to say the one that comes up from the lowest point Should be from a landrover parts bracket (about £13) each which bolts to the bottom of the door frame and also picks up the bolts that pass through the out rigger a right sod to fit if your bolts are old and like mine the inner ally is in a poor way and the middle fixing should be through the bulk head at its bottom and pick up a bracket on the rear of the bolk head which is in turn bolted through the floor. In brief not just bolted to the ally inner skin Why two little brackets should cost a woppin £13 each is a little beyond me perhaphs they come complete with high tensile bolts and nuts ?? As mine are going to be only lap straps Im not to sure about top fixings but when safety is a factor the marshalls always take a belt and braces approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 From what the marshall told me the bottom strap fixing that is to say the one that comes up from the lowest point Should be from a landrover parts bracket (about £13) each which bolts to the bottom of the door frame and also picks up the bolts that pass through the out rigger a right sod to fit if your bolts are old and like mine the inner ally is in a poor way and the middle fixing should be through the bulk head at its bottom and pick up a bracket on the rear of the bolk head which is in turn bolted through the floor. In brief not just bolted to the ally inner skin Why two little brackets should cost a woppin £13 each is a little beyond me perhaphs they come complete with high tensile bolts and nuts ?? As mine are going to be only lap straps Im not to sure about top fixings but when safety is a factor the marshalls always take a belt and braces approach Thanks for that. I feel a bit better now as I have got the original lap belt mountings which secure the lower 2 fixings of the 3 point belt. The shoulder strap is located into the corner bracket that joins the rear bulkhead to the side of the rear tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 lifted up a few other plates then whent back to the manual went through this process several times untill it dawned on me that because I have an overdrive fitted on the end of the main shaft that the castle nut won't be there Will there be some other nut after the over drive that may have come lose or is it becoming more ominous like a worn out gear ? If you have a Fairey type OD, then the standard nut will be there once you remove the OD unit form the transfer box. If you have the Rock Mountain unit, the nut is replaced by a differnt type stah still does the same job, and is secured by two grub screws instead of the tab washer. In either case, if it's loose, 2nd gear tends to jump.You also can't tell that the detent springs are weak by looking at them, or comparing them to another old pair that have been in compression for decades. they only cost a few pence, so you'd be best off replacing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 If you have a Fairey type OD, then the standard nut will be there once you remove the OD unit form the transfer box. If you have the Rock Mountain unit, the nut is replaced by a differnt type stah still does the same job, and is secured by two grub screws instead of the tab washer. In either case, if it's loose, 2nd gear tends to jump.You also can't tell that the detent springs are weak by looking at them, or comparing them to another old pair that have been in compression for decades. they only cost a few pence, so you'd be best off replacing them. Theirs a glimmer of hope then, So out with the spanners again Things have moved along with the list of to dos for trialing the rear nato hook plate now has two very solid 10mm plates. One on the inner face and one on the outer face of the chasie and four new M10 high tensile bolts I'd quite happily walk under it if it were hanging by this point (knowing my luck a wheel would fall off) wheel bearing to the front offside next hopefully just need nipping up torq wrench required ?? and the settings or is it a of one grunt for tight two for extra tight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 wheel bearing to the front offside next hopefully just need nipping up torq wrench required ?? and the settings or is it a of one grunt for tight two for extra tight?I find the best way of setting the inner hub nut is to fit the hub, washer and first nut back onto the stub axle and tighten the hut up finger tight, rotate the hub both ways several times, heave and pull the hub in and out and rotate it again to try to settle it fully into its position. Once I'm satisfied that the bearings are full seated, I slightly undo the nut, then with a healthy smear of grease all over the hub nut box spanner and a light grip, tighten the nut until the spanner spins in my hand. Then I fut the new lock washer, the second nut finger tight, lock the first nut with the washer, fully tighten the second nut and then lock that. You don't want to apply much torque on the first nut - it should be just strarting to nip. ANy tighter and you'll have excessive pre-load, resulting in bearing failure.Clear as mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Now you’ve made me go out and order the green book This I understand should be read every night for a month which will in turn make me smart enough to do the job As you remember I have the spare box to practice on Whilst on the phone to Cradock’s I tried to order new Detent springs I found that the guy on the other end was so convincing in telling me it was a waste of time to even try replacing them as he was sure the only outcome to 2nd gear jump out was a recon box Now not being of particularly forthright demeanour I lamely agreed and left him alone without ordering them So now I going to order them from Paddocks and not ask for advice Having tried the advice you have so kindly given and if finding that it is in fact in need of a new 2nd gear, where would I get all my gearbox internals? And what other parts should I be reading up on about changing whilst I’m in there? Just a note to anyone hunting for recovery rings for the front of a series as I have been for the past two weeks Rocky mountain sell the brand new items for about £40 seat belt bracks, now thats another thing !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheesy Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Mine used to do much the same thing until I pulled the landy diesel and put a 4.1l straight six petrol in! Another thing that you might want to check is that the limit screw for second gear is letting it engage properly, I had it wind out once and not be able to select 2nd at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 You may need to rebuild the box as the Craddocks chap said, but the main shaft nut and new detent springs sometimes work and are a cheap and simple first try - it'd be a shame to go to the trouble and effort of a rebuild if that's all that was required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Perhaps you should have just got a nice 90 instead, John Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Perhaps you should have just got a nice 90 instead, John Mo yes yes you 90 owners are all the same new bits new tec but the pleasure from beating the new machinery at the trials with a 47 year old series 2 will be worth all the pain And I cant afford a 90 ! I can dream though Ill wait for you at the finishing post !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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