Series 3 Free Whel Hubs

[pikefly]

Just got '77 Series 3 with Selectro hubs which are weeping oil. Apart from just replacing mini metro seats I would like to get her in good shape

Never had freewheel before and would like to repair/service. Does anyone have copy of a manual or any advice? Apart from taking them off!!

[Mark]

unfortunately it is virtually impossible to stop the selectro design from leaking. However, it is possible to swap over from oil to one-shot swivel grease in the hubs which tends to stay in better. I have had this combination on my IIA for some time, and they don't leak.

hth

Mark

[pikefly]

unfortunately it is virtually impossible to stop the selectro design from leaking. However, it is possible to swap over from oil to one-shot swivel grease in the hubs which tends to stay in better. I have had this combination on my IIA for some time, and they don't leak.

hth

Mark

Thanks MArk much appreciated. Do I take the allen keys out first or the larger bolts on the hub itself?

[Mark]

The cap head bolts hold the mechanism to engage and disengage the hubs together. You can remove the hub by just undoing the bolts holding it onto the hub I think, but you will almost certainly need to split it to put it back on. It is a long while since I had any apart though!

[Les Henson]

If I remember correctly, you remove the 6x3mm allen bolts, remove the cap, release the spring lock mechanism (by twisting it I think), then undo the flange bolts and it comes off. I had them on my last 109 and one leaked and I couldn't stop it, so I bought 2 new ones and they both leaked !

They stick out too far I think and I clouted them a few times. Chucked them in the bin in the end.

Les.

[Phil Hancock]

Dont forget the nut on the end of the half shaft that needs the end cover of the FWH removing to get at.

[Rich_P]

I wouldn't recommend one shot grease in the Series swivel housing. If you look on the grease container it lists all the coil sprung vehicles, and all the coil sprung vehicles feature a completely different swivel design (e.g. utilising constant velocity joints rather than universal joints). I would anticipate increased rates of wear on the bearings given what the condition of my Land Rover's swivel internals were like after having had one shot in for a while.

[Snagger]

I wouldn't recommend one shot grease in the Series swivel housing. If you look on the grease container it lists all the coil sprung vehicles, and all the coil sprung vehicles feature a completely different swivel design (e.g. utilising constant velocity joints rather than universal joints). I would anticipate increased rates of wear on the bearings given what the condition of my Land Rover's swivel internals were like after having had one shot in for a while.

You put 1-shot in because the swivels were leaking. DOn't you rather suspect that the damage was caused by running the swivels dry before using the 1-shot, rather than the grease itself? If LM grease is designated for the prop UJs, why do you think only oil is suitable for the swivel UJs? The centrifugal forces will make sure plenty of 1-shot gets into the bearing cups, and the 1-shot tends to liquify with the thrashing arouind of the mechanical parts anyway - it's only the staic grease arouns the edges (ie. near the seals) that stays viscous. I used 1-shot in my 109 swivels for nearly 100,000 miles, and one side was perfect. the other had a worn UJ, but I'm pretty sure the bulk of the damage was done from running dry with the leaks and oil before I bought it - the swivel pins were in terrible shape when I got the vehicle, and I should probably have changed the Uj back then with the pins.

I also had Selctro hubs for about a year, but I never noticed any change to speed, economy or steering loads. There may have been a small increase in acceleration, but it may have been wishful thinking. I binned them because they leaked too, and because I believe them to have absolutely no benefits and to be mechanically damaging (swivel pins and prop shaft slip joint) and a nuisance to engage when 4wd is needed in unanticipated circumstances. I also think they're vulnerable to damage if used with standard wheels and look too ugly.

[Rich_P]

You put 1-shot in because the swivels were leaking. DOn't you rather suspect that the damage was caused by running the swivels dry before using the 1-shot, rather than the grease itself? If LM grease is designated for the prop UJs, why do you think only oil is suitable for the swivel UJs? The centrifugal forces will make sure plenty of 1-shot gets into the bearing cups, and the 1-shot tends to liquify with the thrashing arouind of the mechanical parts anyway - it's only the staic grease arouns the edges (ie. near the seals) that stays viscous. I used 1-shot in my 109 swivels for nearly 100,000 miles, and one side was perfect. the other had a worn UJ, but I'm pretty sure the bulk of the damage was done from running dry with the leaks and oil before I bought it - the swivel pins were in terrible shape when I got the vehicle, and I should probably have changed the Uj back then with the pins.

It is true that the damage might have been done already, but because I have nothing else to compare my experience with I can only go off my findings and advise what I think is the best option. The difference I see it with the LM grease being used in propshaft UJs and in the swivels, is that it's forcefully pumped into the bearings of the UJ. Whereas in the swivel it is relying on components to splash lubricate isn't it? Or is the general opinion that this has little bearing on lubrication of both components?

For free wheeling hubs, allegedly the MAP units are the best/strongest that were available on the market and are easy to service. So if anyone wants to go for free wheeling hubs for whatever reason (I personally just have mine because they were on it when I got it and haven't bothered fitting standard flanges) then go for MAP I say.

[Les Henson]

I think one shot would lubricate a series U/J-type joint if the level of the grease was the same as if it was filled with EP80/90. One sachet of one shot is nowhere near as high as the filler/level plug, so perhaps if you filled with one shot to the same height, then there wouldn't be a problem with using it.

CV joint is 6 big ball bearings, whereas a series U/J is 72 needle rollers, so maybe coating the needles all the time might be an issue. I think that with stop and start journeys, then grease would be ok as every time you stop, the U/J gets bathed in grease, whereas a long, continuous journey would keep the grease off the U/J - regardless of the level in the housing.

It would be very difficult to prove which is better, or if one shot is just as effective.

Les.

[Phil Hancock]

I have used industrial lithium grade OO(cheaper version of one shot) grease in both my 109" and before it an 86", when i changed the rover axle for a salisbury but using the same swivel assemblies i thought lets have a look at the top pins & bushes for lubrication and wear. They were as well or better lubricated with the grease than i have seen with oil. Ordinary LM grease as used in the propshafts via a grease gun is much too viscous to do anything at all in a swivel, I once stripped down for overhaul a pair of swivels that had been filled with grease gun grade grease by a tight @rse owner, the UJ was basically dry along with the top pin/bush.

[Daan]

With regards to the grease/oil debate, oil is much better for the wheelbearings, which IIRC in the series is integral with the oil in the swivel.

One problem you do have with freewheel hubs is that because the UJ/shaft is now stationary, the top kingpin bearing gets dry and wears premature, with the steering getting heavy.

On my old series, I drilled the top kingpin and fitted a grease nipple, and plugged the hole in the railko bushing. It worked beautifully, with the steering very light when regularly greased.

Daan