sparg Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I'm wondering why my td5 handling is so much worse than a discovery. 83K on the clock, it does bounce around on the road. I know these things are relative (it's not as bad as the old '56 swb I had) but still - it should be possible to improve it. Would new shocks provide a marked improvement? - on bumpy roads at speed, I can feel the front wheels tramping. And if I'm going to the trouble of replacing shocks, would I get a noticeable improvement over the standard LR ones by fitting some adjustables, like Gaz? Further, I'd like to leave open the option of lifting slightly, simply so I could fit slightly larger tyres than the 235x85 16 I have - really, I want slightly wider, but without smaller rolling radius. In this case, and bearing in mind we're talking about 95% road use, would I need longer travel shockers? and of course, would even a 2inch lift make it even more wobbly onroad? Sorry, I think these issues must have been covered, but I can't quite get the answers I need from searching the archives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I assume it's a 90. If so most of the bouncy sensation is down to the shorter wheelbase. If it's mostly road use, I'd keep it at the standard height. You can fit a 33" tyre with no problems on a std height Defender. Adding a lift can cause various other handling/steering traits that you may not be happy with. If the springs and shocks are the originals, at 83K replacing them will make a big change. Go for Gas dampers and again you'll notice an improvement. If you decide to replace springs and shocks, check condition of spring mounts, front shock tower, and shock retaining rings before you start. If they look very rusty change them out. If you are feeling flush, then it would be also good to change out suspension bushes, all track rod ends, and steering damper. This will tighten everything up and it won't need touching again for another 80-100K Ultimately, if you want to stop any sinificant bounce you can fit very heavy duty springs. This stops it, but will also give a harsh ride, so you may not be happy with the end result. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 thanks steve - yes, swb, and yes, familiar with nodding dog syndrome. But this was something else- hopping around the road, sometimes quite drastically with change of camber, rut, whatever - on occasions, have been surprised I managed to miss something! did wonder about steering damper as well, likewise bushes, but thanks for list of things to look for cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 if you want better road comfort - i would avoid fitting hard poly bushes and stiffer springs... this will magnify the jolting harsh ride and do nothing to reduce the swb preference for bouncing back and forward. I fitted red poly's to my 90 to replace the worn genuine rubber bushes, and i am actually considering changing the radius arm/chassis bushes back to the standard rubber doughtnut types if i ever get the time (not bloomin likely!) as it transmits far too much vibration and thumps from the road to the chassis - and hence to the body, seat and my arse. I do like having stiff poly's in the axle end and panhard rod though, as it gives much more precise steering and control when braking hard. Personally, for a road going motor I would stick to standard springs - or even slightly softer ones - and spend some money on heavy duty uprated anti roll bars and some high end gas shocks to control roll on cornering and absorb the extra movement in the springs. This should give you a smooth silky ride whilst still having the ability to corner sharply and control the pitching. If you are also going to fit bigger tyres (with wider offset rims to maintain turning radius) then also consider the wheel and tyre combo could be significantly heavier and hence increase your unsprung weight. Although saying that, going to 255/85/16 wont be that much heavier and they look the dogs danglies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Right - if I'm doing all 4 corners, is a suspension kit more cost effective I wonder? Also, if the vehicle sits straight, and I want to stick with standard springs, is there any point in replacing the ones I've got? Anti-roll bar - can't quite get my head round this - does a 'heavy duty' one actually provide more inhibition from rolling? (i don't mean rolling over, I mean slight rotating around the front-back axis) - how does it do this? - and if it does, does this mean it's slightly less effective off-road, tending to lose traction in the lower wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks90 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Right - if I'm doing all 4 corners, is a suspension kit more cost effective I wonder? well that depends, if you're going to buy some all singing all dancing triple bypass remote reservoir mutli valved gold plated super dooper shocks for the ultimate in handling, spending £100 on 4 new springs from a LR dealer is nothing...Also, if the vehicle sits straight, and I want to stick with standard springs, is there any point in replacing the ones I've got? not really. Might be worth comparing the distance from the axle to bumpstop against another standard height landy to check the springs havent sagged. If they have sagged and are all knackered, that might account for some of the poor handling. Anti-roll bar - can't quite get my head round this - does a 'heavy duty' one actually provide more inhibition from rolling? yes. In a nutshell, when going round a corner the body will lean over. On each axle this pushes down on one side of the arb and pulls up the other. The stiffer and thicker the arb the more it will resist the pushing/pulling and hence leaning of the body and the more level the vehicle will sit when going round corners. does this mean it's slightly less effective off-road, tending to lose traction in the lower wheel? yep, sort of, maybe... if you are running standard length shocks - your shock will more than likely still become fully extended before the arb limits overall wheel travel. If you want a fancy mega flexi offroad suspension system with +6" shocks then the arb will limit the available travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 thanks Nick and Steve - think I've got the hang of it - nothing fancy, just renew as necessary, uprate shocks and steering damper, maybe bushes if at all in doubt, uprate ARBs, springs only if in doubt (according to tape measure). Still wonder about bushes on panhard rod... if these were a bit so-so, then the axle moving slightly sideways would provide a bit of axle steer. sounds like if I swap the boost alloys for steel rims with more offset, I can get some bigger tyres in there - teeny bit more ground clearance for offroad, without funny castor angles or vibration thru' drivetrain. Once I've got the handling right, I can save up for a cage (!) then intercooler and remap (after egr removal) then relax and enjoy it for a few weeks, before finding something else that needs doing? cheers p.s. I think in the tech section, we could do with a priority list like the above - first, brakes, handling, steering, next structural safety, then power enhancements, then any money left over for things like looking cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 IIRC, standard height on a 90 between up and lower spring mount is about 260mm Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 17, 2009 Author Share Posted February 17, 2009 I assume it's a 90. If so most of the bouncy sensation is down to the shorter wheelbase. If it's mostly road use, I'd keep it at the standard height. You can fit a 33" tyre with no problems on a std height Defender. Adding a lift can cause various other handling/steering traits that you may not be happy with.If the springs and shocks are the originals, at 83K replacing them will make a big change. Go for Gas dampers and again you'll notice an improvement. If you decide to replace springs and shocks, check condition of spring mounts, front shock tower, and shock retaining rings before you start. If they look very rusty change them out. If you are feeling flush, then it would be also good to change out suspension bushes, all track rod ends, and steering damper. This will tighten everything up and it won't need touching again for another 80-100K Ultimately, if you want to stop any sinificant bounce you can fit very heavy duty springs. This stops it, but will also give a harsh ride, so you may not be happy with the end result. Cheers Steve So if I flog the boost alloys, fit steels with wider offset, I can bung in 33" tyres without rubbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 So if I flog the boost alloys, fit steels with wider offset, I can bung in 33" tyres without rubbing? Or you can fit to Boosts. You need to adjust lock stops to stop the tyres rubbing on the radius arms and you'lkl have a slightly wider turning circle. Or buy some Wolf steel wheels. On a standard suspension set up you'll won't get any rubbing. With a modified suspension set-up you will get some rubbing on the plastic arches when off road. Easily solved with some light trimming of lower edge with a stanley knife. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Thanks Steve - those tyres noisy? - the wheels look good. Why would a modded suspension cause rubbing and the standard not? - thought it would be the other way around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Chua Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 more articulation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 If you alter the suspension you aim to increase travel on both the compression and the rebound stroke. Increasing compression travel effectively moves the wheel further up into the arch, if this is combined with fitting larger tyres you can run into clearance issues. So if you fit +2" shock mounts on your wheel will move 2" further up into the arch (assuming the spring doesn't become coilbound beforehand). If your tyres also are 2" (for eg) bigger then your looking at 4" in total. I'm not sure how much space you have from standard though - as I've yet to measure up or find the info on here anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparg Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 If you alter the suspension you aim to increase travel on both the compression and the rebound stroke. Increasing compression travel effectively moves the wheel further up into the arch, if this is combined with fitting larger tyres you can run into clearance issues. ah! right - that makes sense, ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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