Recovery Points - Anyone ever seen / know these ?

[landkeeper]

on the rear of swb pajeros/shoguns there is a nice recovery eye mounted with 4 bolts to the x member ,well at least the ones over here have

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

on the rear of swb pajeros/shoguns there is a nice recovery eye mounted with 4 bolts to the x member ,well at least the ones over here have

^^^

I know the ones you mean - Too small, not really up to HD recovery. A baby version of the

popular "D Ring" unit often on backs of LRs IMHO

When I've seen these fitted they tend to be mounted with the bar of the loop vertical which I don't understand.

In a straight pull it makes no difference if the loop is vertical or horizontal.

In the case of a side or angled pull a horizontal loop would be stronger so that is the way I would have expected to see them mounted.

Now, thats a very interesting thought.

I saw this comment last night and have thought about it since

I am rapidly coming back to the loop type recovery eyes, for all the comments and reasons above

its what I have at the moment - some 20mm rod bent to a loop and welded in big timey to the carrier

unit, mine at the mo is at a "Jaunty angle" - partly due to time I had to make it on their for the last event,

so in effect I only have the one - to explain the angle the loop goes top to bottom of the

winch bumper, the top being further outside the 90 than the bottom which is further in board.

So, maybe one for Mr Bish Bosh, can someone explain to me the pros cons

and reasons why the following would be best / worst :

2x 20mm Loops:

• Welded it vertically, dead upright top and bottom of winch unit
  
• Welded in Horizontally - dead level loop ends welded into winch unit side by side
  
• Welded in at a jaunty angle - top rod further out from 90 than bottom rod
  
• As above, another jaunty angle - but this time top rod welded in further inboard and bottom rod further outwards
  Lastly - if all of the above were made from 20mm Rod heated and bent into a loop, if there were differening sizes of the loops
  would this increase decrease the strength / movement / risk of bending ? ie if one loop set was say made round an 8" former, so the ends
  where it goes paralell are 8" apart, and another set made again from 20mm rod, but bent around a 4" former - so the paralell ends
  were only 4" apart - would the 4" being tighter / closer etc be in effect stronger ? .
  Obviously I can work out that the further "Sticky out" from the winch unit the loop comes will affect bending / stress / deformatiom,
  so the less sticky out the better, providing you can still get a hook on it, but the thought of the size of the loops has
  also now crossed my mind ?
  HELP
  

?

Nige

[clbarclay]

The first point I would add is the shape of the loop. The D44 ones are a just a plain 180 degree bend, so that on a side pull the hook would slide round the loop to nearer the mounting, reducing the bending moment on the loop. The loops on the front of the Tony Baskill's G wagen were rather an odd shape, it would be interesting to know the reasons behind then. I suspenct it was a case of satisfying requirements other than just strength.

My current ones are horizontal due to other aspects of the design, though I would probably go for a slight angle off the horizontal (maybe 30 degrees) with the outer side loop higher than the inner side. Recoveries are not always directly ahead or to the side, so the idea behind having the loop at an angle is to have the loop fairly strong in most common directions of pull. I have single line winched down and too the side (relative to the vehicle, not the ground), but so far I've never had had a hard recovery which involved a pulling down and to the side off a recovery point so the loops don't need to be as strong in this direction. Other peoples experiances of recoveries will vary so please share and compare you experiances.

I basically agree with Steve d, orientate the loops for the expected load case, so that they are strong enough for all the expected loads, both direction and maximum force at each direction.

On loop size I would say as big as necissery and as small a possible. Take the situation of a direct ahead pull where the hook is action in the middle of the loop. The loop can be crudely stress analyses as a beam the same length as the loops diameter, with a point load in the middle. Make the beam wider and the bending moment and therefore stress increases.

[landrover598]

The reason i put mine in at a jaunty angle is so that each leg of the eye could be welded to each side of the chassis rail, to help spread the load down both sides.

I'd be very impressed if you could bend 20mm eyes during a recovery.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

^^^

Interesting I haven't bent my 20mm loop either so far hence why I like the route

this is now taking...but

Good Grief.

Wheres that BishBloke when he's needed. ?

Anyone have his work number - and can ring him

up and wake him please

Nige

[errol209]

^^^

Interesting I haven't bent my 20mm loop either so far hence why I like the route

this is now taking...but

Good Grief.

Wheres that BishBloke when he's needed. ?

Anyone have his work number - and can ring him

up and wake him please

Nige

I'll email him at work for you - what's it worth?

[clbarclay]

I suppose with 20mm you won't have to worry too much about strength of the loop shape too much.

But then again Nige could make it a challange to try and bend them (without bending the chassis).

[bishbosh]

Flinking blip!

I take five minutes for a free lunch and see what happens!

Nige, take a chill pill, bend up some loops and stick them on for gawds sake!

This does not need an FE analysis!

The angled approach is two fold ('scuse the pun ) and I think both have been mentioned by other grown ups already - spreading the load and reducing the bending effects on sideways pulls - if the loop top is outboard when the hook is pulled sideways on the loop it will ride up the loop towards the outside (direction of pull) until it stops against the front face of the bumper. Like this the bending effects are minimised.

As I said before, this type of recovery point is cheap and effective and it will let you know if things are going wrong before it goes pop. Something that gets overlooked when people are talking about strength IMHO. Much better to bend the loop and stop and rethink the recovery than have an "uber strong" recovery point suddenly let go with no ductile behaviour.

Cut a couple of links of QE2 anchor chain in two. They should be just about up to the job

Now, be a good fellow and get to work would you

[errol209]

I take five minutes for a free lunch and see what happens!

Now look what you've made me do! Separated him from his food: no xmas card for me now

[bishbosh]

Well I'm glad I rushed out of my free lunch Mr Hell................................................