Paul Humphreys Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 FREE NATIONAL GREEN LANE MEGA DRIVE 6th - 7th MAY 2006 World 4x4 Adventures have teamed up with CRAG to run a green laning weekend with simultaneous groups running in dozens of different areas across the country, from the Peak District to Exmoor, from Brecon Beacons to Salisbury Plain. You choose what region you want to explore for the Saturday and a different one for the Sunday. For example you can explore the rocky tracks of the Peak District on Saturday and then have a Sunday lunch in a Welsh village pub. Or, if you don’t fancy travelling too much, you can also do 2 days on different lanes in the same region Basically all you have to do is choose what area you want to drive in on Saturday and another for Sunday and contact the Team Leader to arrange a meeting point and to ask any questions you might have. You cannot just turn up on the day, we will have strict group sizes of no more than 5 vehicles, so if you have some mates coming along they’ll have to contact us first. For more infomation please see www.world4x4.co.uk/glmd.htm All the info is there. We haven't got every route we're intending to run up yet, so check back from time to time. In the mean time, if you have any questions, please email me at robb4x4@gmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Lovely idea, i can just see it- groups of legal subjects enjoying a days offroading being hounded by lots of loony looking ramblers, shouting and blowing horns, followed by fisticuffs and a return home in time to watch the BBC news! Damn- that was hunting wasn't it (although i would pay to see a rambler lying in front of a vehicle- especially if they were lying in 2 foot of mud and water!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Thats all I can say. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Hmmmmmmmmmm Maybe I am being thick here but : What is the real point of this ? How does this positively help 4x4ing ? What is the expected benefit ? Why does it / or even does it even merit a mention ? National ?....have GLASS AWDC TRF et others got a say or more importantly a view ? Have you spoken to the other groups and discussed what you doing - do they support you ? Anyone can drive these lanes anytime they want, and they can do it even if you say "limited numbers" ? This smacks to me of a poorly thought out, poorly PR enginnered 'Self Promotional' day for a business and a mainly unrecognised and unknown organisation to do some 'sensational 4x4 ing', probably IMHO getting a load of seriously negative publicity - and definately not the sort of publicity your planning ............. Not clever IMHO - better left to the professionals like GLASS TRF AWDC ? I stand to be corrected BUT : You won't like this, ......but the more I think of this ill conceived day the less I like it .......so there Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Not clever IMHO - better left to the professionals like GLASS TRF AWDC ? As for this bit, CRAG are Professional. It is been done to get people out green laneing. Lots of people do not know how or where they can go. This is a way of showing them that they can get out there and some of the places they can go. It is a positive way of showing what responsible 4x4 and bikes (yes there will be bikes) are like off tarmac, without doing damage. The expected benefit of trying to do this is to try to teach people the right way of laneing. I through it was worth mention it, but if no one is interested then it will get no reply’s? National ?....have GLASS AWDC TRF, Don’t know, not asked them. But all because we have not asked them dose not mean they cannot join us. Some GLASS and TRF members are joining us. Yes anyone can drive the lanes, at any time. We are not driving any new lanes. Just using the ones that are there. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is not a PR stunt as it might not even make it to any press. I am out most weekends anyway so its just another laneing day to me. As for it “'Self Promotional' day for a business” then its not its just started as an idear. If you can think of anything better please let me know and if it can be done I will look at doing it. If you have anymore question please let me know and I will try to answer them. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 Try working WITH the Major organisations who work together for the benefit of all. No doubt you will disagree with this and promote CRAG as the organisation for 4x4ers. Problem is 'dilution of effort' and some splinter groups going off and do silly things which actually do little to promote the cause, and in some cases damage, often through stupidity, lack of knowledge forthought or plain blindness as to the consequences. You may not get press (I pray you do not) but if you do I'll place a bet some, or all, will be very negative, and haunt you and your group for years to come ? This has all the hallmarks and all the makings of a all singing and all dancing giant PR ****up. Your statement re the AWDC GLASS AND TRF can join you is may I say a touch arrogant ?, ...... maybe YOU should be talking to them and agreeing a truly national strategy, and support and assistance from ALL the user groups ? ? I wish you well, ......................but I fear the worst Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted March 28, 2006 Author Share Posted March 28, 2006 Nige I have sent a pm. I will also post this. Thought I would copy this in, just goes to show that our efforts are paying off.!! (Full thread can be found at www.trailbikemag.com in forum under Rights of Way/Sarn Helen Footbridge) just got off the phone to powys c.c. regarding TROs and such like in the rhayader area, turns out the situation isn't as bad as suspected. the worst news was that the monk's trod route is still closed pending the funding to repair the damage. route south of the clearwen reservoir (cerrigcwplau-rhiwnant) is a possible tro in the near future due to complaints from landowners and other users, it's apparently becoming quite bad so the advice from powys was to try and preserve it as much as possible for the time being (i.e. leave it be if it's very wet/raining and if it looks bad then again, leave it be), this should ensure it stays open for the summer months when things have dried out a bit. but the reason i post here is that the chap i spoke to had plenty of good things to say about CRAG, he's of the opinion that advice given by CRAG is probably the most reliable on sensitive routes. he also commended the way in which CRAG approach powys c.c. and the work they are doing to maintain damaged areas (he mentioned the sarn helen bridge). so a big thanks to CRAG from me, i'll certainly be doing what i can to help out in future and recommend we all do the same too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Surley anything that promotes sensible driving of green lanes is a step in the right direction. Its the mindless plonkers that get us a bad name. We have the right to drive the lanes so why not get together once in a while and use your local knowledge to show folks from out of town whats in your back yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hi and welcome. Couldn't agree with you more, absolutely promote "Correct & legal" way. In simple terms you are 100% Correct BUT : Problem is being highjacked, when an organization (CRAG or ANYONE else) goes "Public", and announces what it is doing, do not be suprised if the entire day and the reasons for it are "High jacked" and all the positive good work done is then misrepresented, twisted and printed somewhere, never mind the facts and truuths and good intentions, whats printed is often a close to damned lies as you can get and the dmage done. People read what is printed - and often belive it, thats how it often is. Here we have a new 4x4 Lobby group, doing something that whilst "Honourable" "valuable" and "Legal" it does IMHO and experience have all the ingredients of the above commnets. Couple that with the Groups "new ness" they may well be in for a shock if someone decides to "attend" and then "Rubbish", I was involved 20 years ago with a "Pro 4x4 lets explain how lanning is legal, and done properly" with a magazine - what was printed was absolute lies, yet this was from people who were with us for the day, asked questions, and were we were told "pro 4x4ers" Oh no they were not, they had their own agenda, and it hit the national papers, I was pictured, and it was as tho a "Off duty Journo" had taken pics and was saying how disgraceful it was !!...he did get a big shock when I then saw him at an event some months later, I think the words "F Terrified" when I picked him up and screamed at him 1/2 inch from his face tells the start of another story....he did however leave (very quickly) shortly afterwards..... With this embeeded in my mind, how do they know those attending haven't similar agendas ? The fact that CRAG are doing this is one thing, we could argue if it is right or wrong till the cows come home, sit down and have tea, frankly what they are doing is 100% legal, and the REASON is honourable, the result could be very different. CRAG do seem to have "energy" and drive that some others may have had wane, if so good, inject that into the other organizations and then work together as a team of lobbyists, this is the only way things get done, working as individual units just dilutes the voice, and often one lobby workls against (without knowing) the other.... It IS easier said than done getting GLASS CRAG TRF LARA AWDC et all to work together...but the result would be a great one. I genuinely wish CRAG all the very best luck, I'm not knocking what they are doing, just I can see a bigger picture as many I know have also been badly bitten let down or plain used and lied about. We will see, but whichever and whatever route they take, working as a unified voice is the real way forward. I have had PMs to and from Paul, as he didn't wnat to cause a slanging match, fiar point but I wouldn't do that, CRAG at the end of the day are trying to help 4x4ers and their / our cause, and for that I am grateful as many have an opinion on all things off road and then actaully themselves do **** all about doing anything, they just wait for others to do it, be it marshalling, COCing, running events, running clubs, or campaigning, I know I have seen that too many times - so Power to those who actaully DO SOMETHING....my point was a) be very very very careful b.) hidden agendas, lies and more lies are just around the corner c) work as a unified voice d) good luck and fingers crossed Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 A few points in my opinion: As for this bit, CRAG are Professional. It is been done to get people out green laneing. To be a bit more professional I hope 'laneing' was as typo, and you meant laning. have GLASS AWDC TRF, Don’t know, not asked them. But all because we have not asked them dose not mean they cannot join us. Some GLASS and TRF members are joining us. If having no more than 5 vehicles (including bikes) and members from CRAG/GLASS/TRF are on the trip, it doesn't leave much room for the Newbies, who lets face it are the target audience. The Antis do like to get hold of organised events such like this, and manipulate and twist the truth, however legal it is. CRAG are certainly trying to up their profile, with several posts from Paul on this forum letting us know what they are/have been up to, but I agree with Nige - Be very careful. Count me out though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 "I hope 'laneing' was as typo, and you meant laning." Yes it’s a typo, I am hopeless at spelling. I would rather just drive the lanes!! "If having no more than 5 vehicles (including bikes) and members from CRAG/GLASS/TRF are on the trip, it doesn't leave much room for the Newbie’s, who lets face it are the target audience." Each group will be lead by an experienced person. So there will be lots of space for newbie’s. Some of the groups will be led by GLASS/CRAG members and some of the bike groups will be led by TRF members, we hope. "CRAG are certainly trying to up their profile, with several posts from Paul on this forum letting us know what they are/have been up to, but I agree with Nige - Be very careful." It’s not a case of being careful; it’s a case of trying to show new people that they can still go laning even after the NERC bill and showing how to do it in the correct manner. I am sure there will be more groups out on the weekend that are not members of any group, than we are taking out. We are doing what we can. It all helps. As I have said to Nige, I am happy for anyone who wants to help to do so. Not just on this planned weekend. There are some people that will always have a go a group what ever they do. That is not to say that you are having a go. Its just people do. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryDisco Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I think it's a good idea, it seems we're going to lose most if not all of the lanes anyway, why not use them while we have the chance? The assumption must be made that this "Mega Drive" will be carried out carefully - Paul, will a route be driven if the use it has already received has caused damage, or heavy wear? I've not been laning for as long as some, and longer than others, but I don't believe GLASS, AWDC etc have better awareness than CRAG because they've been around longer, and if I recall correctly, a while ago the concensus of opinion was any good green lane PR was good public awareness. There's always the danger the "Mega Drive" could all go pear shaped, but do any of us sit at home in case we get hurt out in the real world? By the way Paul - Mega Drive is a crappy name! Sounds like a computer game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hybrid from Hell - wonder what that looks like then. Agree with you, it would be great if all of us GLASS, CRAG, AWDC, TRF could at least get together for NERC and CROW but one thing I have learn from years of dealing with customers is, no matter how hard you try you will never please everyone so you may as well do your bit as you see it and dont worrie about the rest.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 The assumption must be made that this "Mega Drive" will be carried out carefully - Paul, will a route be driven if the use it has already received has caused damage, or heavy wear?: The routes are planned by the person who knows the area best, the local person. All of the routes are substainible. No damage should be caused. But as with any laning you never know. The day before a tree could have fallen over the lane and it will need moving. This will cause damage to the tree. Or if someone drives in to a ditch some minor damage might get done getting them out. I've not been laning for as long as some, and longer than others, but I don't believe GLASS, AWDC etc have better awareness than CRAG because they've been around longer, and if I recall correctly, a while ago the concensus of opinion was any good green lane PR was good public awareness. I carnt say one way or the other. All I can say is that we (CRAG) have gotten a lot done in a short time with not a lot of people. So we must be doing something right. There's always the danger the "Mega Drive" could all go pear shaped, but do any of us sit at home in case we get hurt out in the real world? By the way Paul - Mega Drive is a crappy name! Sounds like a computer game... This is true. As for the name, I might have chosen something different but I did not name it. So the name stays this time. As always I always try to answer questions the best I can. I may not always be right, but dont tell the wife Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Hybrid from Hell - wonder what that looks like then. aptley names cos just so damned much of it was handmade it looked like this : Now replaced wiv the primered 4.5V8 90 Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treebloke Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Very nice, is the winch run off the crank or PTO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 PTO from LT95. Now 'RIP' Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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