sotal Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I decided to delay the MOT this time and sort out the rear crank seal at a leisurely pace. So as far as I know - I need to..... Remove Seats + Seatbox Remove floor panels and gearbox tunnel bits Remove gearbox - up and out of passenger door If I remove the gearbox how long can I leave nothing attached? ie is there anything that will rust up? The Land Rover will be left on the drive. Once I remove the gearbox is there anything I can do to improve it without too much expense or hassle!? I have the following symptoms which I have learnt to live with a little: 3rd and 4th are difficult to engage without a little crunching. I tend to be able to go up OK as I can take my time but going down from 4th to 3rd as you climb a hill nearly always gives a crunch. The gearbox generally seems noisy Just recently the gears have been a little stiff to select (after leaving it for 6 months) - reverse was hardest to select, this has got a little better through use but the gears are a little stiffer than they were. Anything else worth doing whilst the box is off (clutch should be OK as it was done 3 years ago and we haven't done many miles) It's a late series 3 box can't remember the suffix but it was from a B reg series 3 - so one of the last. It is mated to a 5mb Engine. I've found a few guides for changing the seal on a 3mb, but can't find any for the 5mb but I believe it is easier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 5-bearing crank is easier to do, but still a bit fiddly, but it's just bolted on really. The flywheel face and clutch cover face might get a film of rust on them after a while. I would take the engine out - easier to do on a series motor, but the floor, etc, still has to come out, so a matter of choice really. Check the detent balls/springs on the gearbox - they may be dry/sticking. It might be wise to replace the spigot bearing while you have the flywheel off. About 80p for one, but loads of bad language removing it Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Many thanks for the reply Les (as always!) Can't really take the engine out as I don't have a hoist available. We did the Rear Crank Seal a few years back when we put this engine into the 2a, it only lasted about a year (was in a blue box ) but I had the help of an experienced LR bod at the time! (and I forgotten it all now) No idea what your on about with dedent springs and spigot bearings but I'll do some searching! Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Spigot bearing is in the centre of the flywheel (it's actually in the end of the crank). The tip of the gearbox input shaft sits in it. Just a phosphor bronze bush. Detent balls/springs are in the cap of the gearbox - there's a thin steel plate retained by 7/16" bolts on either side. The plate retains the springs and balls, plus rubber ring seals. On the top of the gearbox is a brass cap nut with another spring/detent ball underneath. These are there to help hold the gear once it's selected, so may not be your problem, but they can dry-up and make gear selection stiff/notchy. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Thanks Les, Yes the gears hold well once in and never pop out - but have gone stiff (can these bits be greased up a bit if they've dried up?), it's more the synchro not working which is the main problem - will that require a bigger strip down to investigate? I'll get the thing out first! Then take some photos etc and see if someone can guide me to anything which needs replacing. Just got to wait a week or two as I pulled a muscle in my shoulder which is limiting what I can lift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serious2a Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Les Henson says he used a lot of bad language to remove the spigot bush - NOT NECESSARY! Simply get say an 8" piece of bar as near as possible to a sliding fit in the bore of the bush, fill the bush with very soft grease (cv joint grease is ideal) and whack the bar into the grease - the bush will pop out with the hydraulic action, as nice as you like! Mind your good trousers, though! Having said this, the bush rarely wears excessively unless the vehicle has been used with the clutch held down when in gear for unnaturally long periods - the only time when relative movement between the bush and the input shaft takes place - and can be checked for size using a digital vernier etc and compared to the shaft - ideally no more than .008 (0.2mm) beyond which it is wise to renew the (cheap & easily fitted) bush. QED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Well I'm a step closer, Spent this afternoon taking out: The seats and cubby box, The handbrake The Floor and gearbox tunnel bit The Seatbox. All went quite well a couple of bolts snapped and had to use the grinder on one. I always worry when doing jobs like this that you find bits have dissolved and removing things like the seatbox makes them fall apart! The seatbox itself is OK, the ends have been replaced at some point with thicker alloy. The passenger underseat tray is a bit rusty but nothing major (could do with a drain hole - when you go through deep water it fills up and doesn't empty again!) The worst bits seem to be the bottoms of the B posts (or the lack of bottoms). The drivers side had a thick peice of metal bolted to the B post which then had two bolts going to the sill - that seemed secure enough (Not sure on legalities but it's been through the last 4 MOT's ok) The passenger side had a smaller bit of metal but when I cleaned the mud off I realised it was only bolted to the seatbox. The sill was only bolted to the seatbox on this side. The bit of metal just seemed to be hiding the hole! What would be the best way to repair these B posts? Was the metal plate on the drivers side an OK way of doing it? If so I may as well copy that for the passenger side. Next jobs are... Unbolt both props from the gearbox - I always hate undoing these there never seems enough room! Remove speedo cable unbolt bellhousing from engine undo gearbox mounts I didn't look but I presume I need to remove the clutch fluid pipe? What's the best way to do this? Does the gearbox have to come out the passenger door? Will it fit out the drivers side instead? I'm just a bit close to the wall on the passenger side so it would be easier to come out the drivers side - I've removed the steering wheel. Any other tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 When I was refreshing my 109 the back of the seatbox area was badly corroded. As I recall the seatbox is bolted to the rear tub along the top, and down each side, in addition it is bolted to the sill, which bolts to the front bulkhead. The rear tub is bolted to the chassis. On mine, the rear tub had corroded badly around the chassis mounting point, so I cleaned it back to good metal, treated it and painted it up. I then used some alloy sheet, about 3mm thick, to sandwich the bad part using adhesive, afterwhich I then rivited the whole thing together. The sills were ok, and I was able to refresh them, however if I was doing the job again I'd buy or make new ones, as they appear to be cheap enough. The seat belt outer meounting also bolts in here, so it is kindof important. I don't recall the sill bolting to the chassis, which I thought was a poor design from a side impact perspective, however it works ok. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 3rd/4th gear crunching probably means the 3 flat springs in the synchro unit are causing problems (RTC1956). They're available for £1 or £2 genuine. Its supposed to be possible to replace them in situ - but I've never done it. (take top off gearbox and you may be able to get at it.) Noisy gearbox suggests the bearings are failing. Not expensive to replace all and to overhaul the box. Its worth draining the gearbox and identifying any teeth and other chunks of metal that come out with the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 Is it best to drain the gearbox before removal (to make it a bit lighter? and to have it in the air a bit?) I was wondering last night if it is possible to change the rear crank seal without removing the gearbox? Can I just slide the gearbox back 7 or 8" and support it there, then replace the rear crank seal and slide the gearbox back into position? If that is possible it would save the effort of lifting it out. I want to do as little as possible as I haven't got that much time, and it was useable if a little noisy but if there is anything I can do quite quickly/cheaply whilst I'm this far in then I may as well do it. Those springs sound a good place to start - when you say take the top off the gearbox which bit do you mean? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicated69 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Is it best to drain the gearbox before removal (to make it a bit lighter? and to have it in the air a bit?) I was wondering last night if it is possible to change the rear crank seal without removing the gearbox? Can I just slide the gearbox back 7 or 8" and support it there, then replace the rear crank seal and slide the gearbox back into position? If that is possible it would save the effort of lifting it out. I want to do as little as possible as I haven't got that much time, and it was useable if a little noisy but if there is anything I can do quite quickly/cheaply whilst I'm this far in then I may as well do it. Those springs sound a good place to start - when you say take the top off the gearbox which bit do you mean? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicated69 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 it is perfectly possible to replace the oil seal as you suggest without having to totally remove the gearbox from the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks for posting that medicated69 - have you got any tips? I'm hopefully going to get an engine hoist anyway to make the job easier but I've no real idea what I'm doing! May be a bit of trial and error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicated69 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 in the absence of a hoist a piece of scaffold pole or a fencing post can be laid from dashtop to the bulkhead behind the seats and a ratchet strap slung from it to take the weight of the gearbox ( a bit course i know but needs must n all that ) i managed to replace mine last time without removing the seatbox although it did involve removing one of the mounting brackets from the side of the qearbox. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest otchie1 Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 in the absence of a hoist a piece of scaffold pole or a fencing post can be laid from dashtop to the bulkhead behind the seats and a ratchet strap slung from it to take the weight of the gearbox ( a bit course i know but needs must n all that ) i managed to replace mine last time without removing the seatbox although it did involve removing one of the mounting brackets from the side of the qearbox. hope this helps I've left the seats in before and laid scaffold pipe between the doors. Worked well enough and gave me a couple of foot to get the clutch/flywheel out but would be a lot easier with a hoist, especially on the refit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've now got a hoist, so my plan is to take off the truck cab roof (got a new windscreen seal waiting to go on so it needed to come off anyway), then use the hoist to lift out the gearbox. Just haven't had any time recently and it doesn't stay light enough in the evenings any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 Today was spent doing the following: Remove both propshafts from gearbox (made easy using air ratchet) Remove last bolt holding handbrake pivot in place. Remove clutch slave cylinder Undo gearbox mount bolts Undo bellhousing bolts (was going easy with air ratchet until the end of my pipe popped) Withdrew the gearbox using the engine hoist (so easy!) Made a quick gearbox stand out of some scrap wood Remove Clutch Cover and clutch Remove Flywheel Bolts So I'm getting close to the rear crank seal now! I've posted a couple of other posts today such as the contents of the oil and how to remove the flywheel - so hopefully I'll give that another go tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Got sidetracked from the rear crank seal by dismantling the gearbox. So to get back on track I have removed the rear crank seal, initially I thought it looked in perfect condition but on closer inspection I presume the seal used to be ridged all the way down, if you look carefully at the photo it only has ridges for about half of the seal (outer half). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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