ProteuS Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hi Everyone, I'm looking to get a 90 defender, and was looking at getting an early 300 tdi as to avoid anything with an ecu, and have disk brakes. I have read all the buyers guides that I can find. Today I had a quick look at a red p ref 96 van sided 300 tdi. It had 97000 miles, and no service history which worried me alot. However it had only had two local owners, and the engine started from cold fine. The back door wire was cut / removed, so obviously the rear wiper and demister would not work. The seats looked ok, although had a tear on the passengers seat. There was the odd dent which seemed ok. The chassis seemed ok, although I only gave it a small inspection the outriggers seemed fine. I was told for the mot last year there was a small amount of welding done (£120). The back door was quite rotten at the back, as are the door hinges. There is no radio in it. It was advertised at £4500, however in discussion the chap said he would take £3750 for it What do you chaps think it is worth? My gut feeling is that it seems too much. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Hi Everyone, I'm looking to get a 90 defender, and was looking at getting an early 300 tdi as to avoid anything with an ecu, and have disk brakes. I have read all the buyers guides that I can find. Today I had a quick look at a red p ref 96 van sided 300 tdi. It had 97000 miles, and no service history which worried me alot. However it had only had two local owners, and the engine started from cold fine. The back door wire was cut / removed, so obviously the rear wiper and demister would not work. The seats looked ok, although had a tear on the passengers seat. There was the odd dent which seemed ok. The chassis seemed ok, although I only gave it a small inspection the outriggers seemed fine. I was told for the mot last year there was a small amount of welding done (£120). The back door was quite rotten at the back, as are the door hinges. There is no radio in it. It was advertised at £4500, however in discussion the chap said he would take £3750 for it What do you chaps think it is worth? My gut feeling is that it seems too much. Thanks in advance 90, 110, 130? Pictures? What were the previous owners' occupations? (Farmer isn't the best answer BTW) What did it sound like / feel like to drive? Was the gearbox noisy at all and did it change easily? How vague was the steering? Last cam belt change? £3750 might be OK, but at 13 years old and 97K something will need doing, and the cost of those things is what will determine the final price. A new rear door, with wiper and HRW plus wiring and paint could set you back £200 - £500, for instance. A typical steering overhaul could be £30 (bushes) to £400 (new PAS box, bushes, UJs, drop arm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 90, 110, 130? Pictures? What were the previous owners' occupations? (Farmer isn't the best answer BTW) What did it sound like / feel like to drive? Was the gearbox noisy at all and did it change easily? How vague was the steering? Last cam belt change? £3750 might be OK, but at 13 years old and 97K something will need doing, and the cost of those things is what will determine the final price. A new rear door, with wiper and HRW plus wiring and paint could set you back £200 - £500, for instance. A typical steering overhaul could be £30 (bushes) to £400 (new PAS box, bushes, UJs, drop arm) It was a 90, sorry I didn't make that clear enough. I'm afraid i don't have any pictures. I haven't driven it yet. I only had time to pop and look in briefly whilst on business. so that is obviously something I will have to look at if I think this is a possibility. As for last cam belt change - as I said there is no history at all. So I've no idea when / if it has been done. I also don't know if the tensioner fix has been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I've just purchased a modified 86reg 90. it cost me 4900GPB, now its got a galv chassis (this is the best bit!! - its awesome), Recon 200Tdi Disco engine with "44k on it" - sceptical about this though! My experience so far after driving it for 1 week, I had to replace wheels and tires which cost me 500 squid, the exhaust is illegal so got to fork out for new one, spent 100's on totally oil change (diff's, engine etc), must have spent another couple 100 on new tools. Needs new door seals, new air filter, new breather cyclone, rocker cover gasket, fuel lift pump, rear prop shaft, heater cables... all small stuff but it adds up. I got a list that comes to about 250GBP and thats just to get it to a "comfortable" running condition, when i mean comfortable I mean i don't think it will brake down on me... non essential things are, new cab heater, dash, speedo, brake shoes all round, new springs and dampers, lower ratio trans box and recon R380 gear box. So already i've spent probably close 1500GPS on extra stuff, and got an expensive wish list too. Luckily i had a bit of foresight to put some money aside for a "immediate maintenance budget" Best bit of advice i can give you as a new owner/new purchaser is inspect it best you can for overall maintenance, if it looks ok go for it. But keep in your mind that it will need work when you start to find your way around it. After watching the market for some time, i came to the conclusion that there is no real typical price for a land rover that maybe 10 year-ish old. Its all very specific to the particular vehicle ur looking at. BUT i would advise against buying an older car from a dealer... they will rip you off, i was lucky...! i nearly bought a 96reg 110 with 88k on the clock for 5000GBP and after seeing the one I have now, that was a wreck. Also look at as many older landys as you can, give you a feel as to where to look for holes/oil leaks etc, if you aren't familiar (like i was) - i'm an expert now Some photo's of my wreck are here http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=49267 hope this helps. mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 £3750 seems quite a bit for a tdi 90 hardtop P reg and No SH. £3200 i would of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 I'd keep looking there are loads for sale and a good one is worth waiting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted November 27, 2009 Author Share Posted November 27, 2009 Thanks for the replies chaps, I shall keep looking, the prices seem to be tremendously variable for very little discernable reason. Where is the best place to try looking? I have checked out the obvious autotrader / ebay. I am a little concerned about buying something on ebay. Although my one experience of buying a range rover off spec was very good. It has a perfect chassis - and it is a 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landmannnn Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 On a normal car you can value it from the age and mileage, deducting a few quid for condition/tyres/lack of service history. This has never been the case with a land rover (utility models not rr/disco etc). £5k will buy you a 2001 pickup or a 1988 TD. Both can be valid valuations because condition is everything. There is a tendency for people to overvalue their vehicle for sale because they are pricing their scrapper the same as a very good condition vehicle they see for sale with the same age and mileage. The only real solution is to go out on a Saturday morning for several weeks and view as many as you can, don't buy unseen off ebay! Make a list as you go along of what you want or need, for example I would expect £4k will get a vehicle with: - no chassis damage - no bulkhead rust - worn but undamaged interior - smooth engine and no gearbox noise - just minor bodywork damage - decent tyres/exhaust - 8 to 12 months mot Personally I wouldn't worry about the ecu and so restrict the search, they really aren't a massive problem area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Just to add to my previous post. I looked locally, but didn't exactly find much so went national. I found loads down your way with potential, the best way is to look at as many as you can, this will give you a feel for what people want/getting. Initial searching on the Web didn't turn me up so much, so I went to magazines and paper ads... this then gives you more specific web pages to look at, this was a lot more fruitful than just doing google searches. Ebay, is a good a source as any, thats if you can get to see the vehicle - most landrover owners I contacted where more than keen for me to see the vehicle before purchase. When searching try looking at classic car websites too, even 200/300tdi from the 90's seem to be put under the same category, I found a lot of classified ads this way - also with web and magazine adverts don't get your hopes up until you've spoken to the owner/dealer, I found this out the hard way. the market for turbo diesels certainly 1 month ago was hectic, I missed out on a few by hours it appeared! Service history is always a bonus, but its importance depends on what you want the vehicle for/to do. I'm progressively working through the whole vehicle servicing/replacing/putting it right myself, to build into an overland vehicle. So ok i know the timing belt was done so and so... but I'm going to replace it and set it up myself again, so I know its ok - if you get my drift. From my experience you'll be lucky to find a full service history, you might get bits, i.e. from last owner... Personally I wouldn't let this put you off. there are some awesome landies out there without any at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'll keep an eye on the classic car sites too then. with regards to not wanting an ecu. one of the reasons I'm buying a defender is that we have a boathouse that we rent out on the lake. with the last floods we had to get to people and it was really touch and go in the fourtrak. I would prefer to have a vehicle more suited for the job (as well as having a soft spot for defenders). I need something that in an emergency is going to keep on working. The first modification i intend to do is a snorkel and breathers for this reason. I thought that the less electrics on board, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas pinkie Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Personally I would agree with most of what is written above. It does depend on what you want the vehicle for. Is it going to be an every day driver or just a toy that gets used at weekends for pottering about, and during the winter in extreme conditions? If you are after an everyday driver I personally would stick to the 300tdis. The late ones are fetching as much as some newer Td5s, but that because the Newer td5s have various issues that put people off. I personally have owned many rovers, including two newer Td5 defenders, and I personally would NEVER buy another Td5. If its just for weekend fun and emergencys, try an older 2.5Na. poss even an ex mil one. They are dam near bullit proof if looked after, just not so much fun on the motorways, or up hill when fully laden. The 110 utillity or van are always cheaper than a 90. The CSWs always fetch a premium. Dont go on just service history, its good but not always the be all and end all. My 90 gets serviced regularly by me. I am also terrible at keeping the receipts...... Drive it. does it steer in a straight line. Does it stop in a straight line. Do the wheels woble at higher speeds. Does it smoke excessivly.these are the things you need to worry about, as well as rust in the chassis and bulk head. Dont be put off by the odd oil leak (I am forever chasing them around on mine) but equally it shouldnt be so bad underneath that its leaving big patches on the floor. Defenders are all about condition, I have seen absolute dogs on a 51 plate, and absolute gems on an A plate.... the price is all about its mechanical condition and rust. Things like seats, carpets, even wings, bonnet ect are all easily and quite cheaply replaced, so if its agoodun with a caved in wing, dont let it put you off, just budget for it. As to the one in question. Its not a bad price if its in good nick. If its got ANY rust on it, or if its got any major drive train issues, ten yeah, it is probably a bit high. If in any doubt, take some one with you that knows defenders... it ca nsave a lot of heart ache in the future..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteuS Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Hi, I'm looking for something that will get a reasonable amount of useage / especially in winter. from what i've read I've personally been deciding between the 200 and 300 tdi. I prefer the sound of the 300 tdi being slightly more refined, as well as the easier cam belt change / being the same as the disco 300 tdi if anything did go pop. My plan was to have something that would be as reliable as is reasonably possible. probably put a mild lift / bigger AT tyres on, snorkel, and fit the winch that I have. and see if i wanted to go further down the line. I seem to have gathered that around 4k is the money i should be paying for a decent condition 300tdi, with solid chassis / bulkhead etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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