Varsas Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Hi. Yet another newbie asking for help with his first post I'm afraid... Well, I finally got myself a series III. Quite solid, nice gearbox, station wagon roof like I wanted. Drove very well on the test drive, nice steering etc. Despite being (I assume) a 2286cc N/A diesel it pulled quite well, it was no slower then the (allegedly) 2.5 petrol I had test driven a few weeks back. I took it to 50mph, and it still had more to give. Started easily hot or cold, and there wasn't any (well, much) smoke, except for some under load when cold. No signs of leaks on the engine and no funny noises. So I picked it up yesterday and was happily bowling along until we got to a 50mph limit hill. It just wouldn't go, it managed about 35mph up the hill flat out in forth. Got to the top and as I slowed for some traffic light the engine died and smoke poured out of the bonnet. I stopped and watched with some alarm as the water gauge climbed into the red. When I popped the bonnet the crankcase breather bung(?...the black bung on the top of the engine, that coveres the hole you would fill the engine with oil through) had popped off and there was oil everywhere (hence the smoke). I put that back on, waited 15minutes, started the car and drove again. The water temperature fell, but the car was still sluggish. Got onto the motorway and it would only do 43mph (I had GPS). The engine then started making a sort of loud ticking/knocking noise and I began to lose what little power I had. At this point I pulled over and switched off in case I did any more damage. After that the engine would not restart, even after leaving it for 30mins. The last time I tried to start it the starter died and I lost all the electrics (lights etc). It's currently at the recovery places garage, it's going to be looked at by someone who is apparently a LR enthusiast (he had a couple of modified ones, and there was a series III in bits out back, which is encouraging I guess.) So, a few questions. Any idea's what's wrong with the engine? Why is the crankcase pressurised? why is it down on power? Piston rings? Has it simply overheated? I did not check coolent levels (I know, I should have done). Is there any chance I was in low range, and over revved the engine? I double checked the red lever was forward, as per the instructions on the plate. free wheeling hubs were set to 4x2, the yellow lever was up. Oh, don't think the brakes were binding/dragging. I double checked the hand brake was off, and it rolled onto the recovery truck quite easily. Does anyone know any land rover specialists in South Bucks? The car is currently at HP12, in High Wycombe. I can tow it short distances. I've heard there's one in Winchmore Hill? can't seem to find them on teh interwebs. Anyone have a decent 2286 diesel engine they don't need and would like to sell? Or (if it needs a new engine) would it be better to put something else in it? I hear the 2.5 N/A D goes in with just alterations to the engine mounting brackets on the chassis, or I could even have a petrol 2.5 put in? Thanks in advance for any help. Varsas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I'm going to assume you mean the rocker cover breather - the filler is actually the long pipe up on the side of the engine. For it to be blowing oil out, there is some crankcase pressurising. This could be caused by cylinder leaks, from piston ring failure or general wear. Or it could be from a head gasket failure (if it happened suddenly). What is a concern is how this is combined with loss of power, smoke (possibly boiling oil?), knocking/rattling and a lack of power. These all suggest that the engine is dead. Did you check the oil level prior to setting off? What is the oil level now? Does the engine turn over freely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 Thanks for the reply. The smoke was coming from oil that had (I presume) been thrown out of the top of the engine when the bung came off, there was oil over the cylinder head/exhaust manifold etc. I don't think the smoke was coming from inside the engine (which is odd, I would have expected steam), although no way to tell, really. Because the car stopped on the motorway I didn't get a chance to check the oil or anything (in retrospect I shouldn't have carried on after it stopped the first time..I'm now one of those idiots who just drives it till it blows up...). The engine seemed to spin quite freely on the starter. The mechanic also said it sounded like the engine was toast, I guess we'll have to wait and see. It's frustrating that I don't have the car with me but there didn't seem much point in taking it home as it would then be stuck there. Worst case I'll just get someone to put a 2.5 N/A diesel in it for me, I've found the details of the specialist near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Okay. Let us know what the diagnoses of the engine is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 8, 2010 Share Posted March 8, 2010 Hi Varsas and welcome. I'm afraid it does sound a little terminal for your engine. A 2.5 N/A is a straight fit, and a 200 TDi is a popular retrofit - but requires a little more meddling due to the intercooler and exhaust. Where abouts are you located? From the small bit of the truck in the photo though, it looks gorgeous! James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 8, 2010 Author Share Posted March 8, 2010 I love how it looks, SWB marine blue with a white station wagon roof. I really like the interior too; I really like the toggle switches and the split screen in particular. It was also pretty good fun to drive (until it stopped), can't wait to take it off road. Thanks for the advice, I reckon it'll be a 2.5 N/A diesel going in then if I can find a good one. From what I can tell it'll be fast enough with one of those in it, I'm happy as long as I can keep up with the lorries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Sorry for the bump, but I have some news. I have just spoken with the mechanic who is looking at the Land rover for me. The engine stopped because it over heated. It over heated because there was no coolent in it. It had no coolent because there was no core plug(!) The electrical issue is unrelated, but the main feed cable from the battery to the starter motor chafed, cut through the insulation and shorted on the engine block As of now, the engine starts on the starter and runs on all four cylinders. What we don't yet know is: Why there was no core plug? was it blown out of the block or just never there in the first place? You would have thought I would have noticed if it had come out while driving... Has the engine been damaged by being overheated? or was the engine damaged anyway, which caused the core plug to be blown out? For now, we are going to: Replace feed cable Replace core plug Fill with coolent (I've heard they run better when you do that...) Replce oil (I think it's been boiled) Replace battery (was brand new, but has been wrecked by being shorted out) And see where we are. Presumably the head gasket is gone or the piston rings are shot or something else is badly wrong but it's just possible it's all OK. I'll find out in a week or so's time and let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 They're strong engines. You might get away with it, although if it stopped because it overheated I'd be tempted to inspect the big end shells and maybe the main bearing shells too - at the very least. You'll know if a piston ring goes, it'll lose compression on the cylinder and maybe start running poorly with increased oil consumption. Although a head gasket can go if an engine has overheated - two vehicles I know (although not LR engines) did this after getting a bit too warm (didn't get to the point of seizing through overheating though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Injectors can be sensitive to being cooked too. Dodgy starting/excessive smoke may be down to these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Thanks for the advice. I'll look out for signs of head gasket failure when I get it back. I'll keep in mind the symptoms for a dodgy injector, although apparently it started quite easily so I'm hopefull on that one. To be honest I'm reluctant to spend any money on the engine, I'd rather put the cash towards a 2.5 N/A (or even TD) engine swap. What it'll cost to rebuild the 2.25 diesel will almost pay for an engine swap (of course then I have to hope the engine I'm putting in is good!). If it seems OK when I get it back I'll just see how things go. If/when it breaks or it's obvious the engine is badly damaged I'll just have it swapped out. I can then take the old engine apart as a bit of a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thanks for the advice. I'll look out for signs of head gasket failure when I get it back. I'll keep in mind the symptoms for a dodgy injector, although apparently it started quite easily so I'm hopefull on that one. To be honest I'm reluctant to spend any money on the engine, I'd rather put the cash towards a 2.5 N/A (or even TD) engine swap. What it'll cost to rebuild the 2.25 diesel will almost pay for an engine swap (of course then I have to hope the engine I'm putting in is good!). If it seems OK when I get it back I'll just see how things go. If/when it breaks or it's obvious the engine is badly damaged I'll just have it swapped out. I can then take the old engine apart as a bit of a project. You can get Recon ex MOD engines very cheap, it may be a first step, good look anyway, Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotal Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I'm going to assume you mean the rocker cover breather - the filler is actually the long pipe up on the side of the engine. Depends on the age of the engine, I think the old ones had the filler pipe - I've seen a couple of old engines with them on, the new ones don't have such a pipe and are filled using the hole in the rocker cover, they have a slightly different bit that fits in the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Don't think any 2.25 Diesels ever had that though? Only the late petrol rocker covers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludylandy Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 My first landy was (mostly) a S111 2.25 diesel and the oil filler was in the rocker cover. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Siezure through coolant loss is usually in the bores (the pistons jam).If you caught it in time, then there may little or no damage, although the rings may be stuck in their grooves, and the piston alloy may have picked-up on the bored a small amount. If this has happened, then you might expect the engine to give off more smoke, be more difficult to start, and maybe a small amount of piston slap. In the short term the oil may well have continued to lubricate all the moving parts, so you might be fine with that side of things. Cooked oil has a very distinctive smell, so you'll know if it's been boiled or not. The head is almost completely cooled by the coolant, and water loss will cause it to heat up quite rapidly. Fortunateley the head is a huge lump of pig iron, so there'll be no damage to it (warpage, cracking, etc). You might find that the head gasket will blow in the near future - especially if it's the composite type. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hi all. Sorry for the bump, but I have more news. I have just picked the LR up. It all works! Electrics seem fine, it drives/starts well. We got up to 60mph (as shown on the following cars speedo) and it could hold 55ish on the flat. I even overtook a lorry! It's fine, I can easily keep up with traffic, in fact a Pugeot 106 held me up off the motorway so I reckon it's all gravy. Really enjoyed the drive home, once I get a proper steering wheel on it (it has a tiny mountney 'wheel on it at the moment, makes parking impossible!) it'll be great. Heater/wipers/lights etc all seem fine, I was getting quite warm inside, it even de-mists the windscreen (a bit..). two minor issues, the water gauge stays on zero (I believe it does work, it showed quite high when the engine over heated) is that normal? Also the car doesn't stop when you cut the ignition, not a huge issue as I just stall it but is it something easy? I assume it has a solanoid and a cut off valve for the air or something to cut the engine? Going to go to a local greenlane tonight (only short/not difficult, but plenty of mud) to check the 4WD system is working. I think a haynes manual will make a good investment. Thanks for all your help/encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Good news! If the garage had the head off then they may have just forgotten to reconnect the water temp sender. If the diesel head is the same at the petrol 2.25, the sender should be in the head on the drivers side near the water pump. As its diesel i have no idea why it doesnt turn off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Hi all. Sorry for the bump, but I have more news. I have just picked the LR up. It all works! Electrics seem fine, it drives/starts well. We got up to 60mph (as shown on the following cars speedo) and it could hold 55ish on the flat. I even overtook a lorry! It's fine, I can easily keep up with traffic, in fact a Pugeot 106 held me up off the motorway so I reckon it's all gravy. Really enjoyed the drive home, once I get a proper steering wheel on it (it has a tiny mountney 'wheel on it at the moment, makes parking impossible!) it'll be great. Heater/wipers/lights etc all seem fine, I was getting quite warm inside, it even de-mists the windscreen (a bit..). two minor issues, the water gauge stays on zero (I believe it does work, it showed quite high when the engine over heated) is that normal? Also the car doesn't stop when you cut the ignition, not a huge issue as I just stall it but is it something easy? I assume it has a solanoid and a cut off valve for the air or something to cut the engine? Going to go to a local greenlane tonight (only short/not difficult, but plenty of mud) to check the 4WD system is working. I think a haynes manual will make a good investment. Thanks for all your help/encouragement. Great News, I will look out for you on the lanes around here.... I would buy a Land Rover Workshop Manual not a Haynes one, I think they are better and the diagrams eaiser to understand. Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 As I recall, the 2.25 diesel doesn't have an electric stop solenoid. There is a bit of cable somewhere that you will have to pull to stop the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 It's got an engine 'kill' switch mounted under the dashboard, I guess as a sort of hidden immobiliser switch? The brouchure suggests it should have one on the steering wheel column...I guess it's been moved/added by someone. I also discovered it has electric windscreen washers...again the switch is under the dash. I wonder what else I'll find... Oh tonight I found out the instrument lights don't work, i'll pull the dashboard over the weekend and have a quick look. Can't imagine it's too complicated/difficult... I don't think the head has been off, but I'll check the sender and maybe fit a new thermostat, to be sure. The heater sort of works so I think it's getting up to temperature, i'm going to reverse-flush that too to see if it's output can be improved. Thanks for the info re:books, i'll probably buy both, always handy to have the info from two sources. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_P Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 The 2.25 diesel will be stop cable. There should be a choke-like handle somewhere on the dash that you pull, this will close the stop valve and stop any further fuel reaching the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 the dash illuminations are pna switch which you can switch on with the sidelights. it may be the switch thats broken (top left switch on the dash) i just bypassed the switch so the illuminations come on with the sidelights automatically. its sensible anyway. and the diesels did have a stop cable in the dash as per last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varsas Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 Hi. Yes thanks, it was the switch, so yes I just bypassed it. As you say I have now lost the ability to have the dash lights off with the side/head lights on but I think I can live with that... Judging by the wiring going to the 'kill' switch (and the electric washer switch next to it) both of those are later modifications. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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