Lomenech Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 It's me back again! yes you guessed it, we have ongoing wiring issues on the 110. Last post referred to our previous problems with lights playing up, but after repairs to the rear chassis loom we have now got other problems. Something is causing fuses to blow, the first and third from top left of the fuseboard, namely the Hazard lights and the indicators/rear washer/fuel gauge (combined). These have blown 5-6 times in last 3 days and we have just replaced the fuses with a slightly higher amp in case there was some sort of overload problem, but even a 20Amp fuse blows too, when the indicators are operated. I just wanted to ask if anyone else out there has experience of this sort of thing? Could this new problem be a result of the dash being examined and/or the rear loom repair? We have to take the car back to the garage next week, and they say it won;t be anything to do with the repair to the rear chassis harness, but when the fuses in question both relate to the rear of the car (ie: hazards, rear washer and indicators) I can;t help thinking it is related. MOT and tax due in 2 weeks. We have got some (relatively straightforward) mechanical stuff to do too, but the electrics are what worry me as it seems like it could be an bottomless can of worms...Help! Thanks very much, Olivia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 is the fuse location label inside the fuse box cover the same as this [on my 110] see photo below. are the fuses a glass tube with metal end caps or the plastic blade type ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 hello! thanks for the reply, and no our location label is NOT the same. If you turned your round 90 degrees anti-CW, and imagine a vertical column format with the hazards first on top left then that would start to resemble ours. I will try and send a photo if that would help? In answer to your second query, we have the plastic blade type fuses. I did by the way try to update my profile details, though I can see they are not showing up on the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Do not ever install a larger fuse. The fuse is there to protect the wiring harness. Putting a larger fuse in just creates a fire risk. You presumably have a short to ground, somewhere in the loom, its gonna take a bit of testing with a meter to find it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 hello Aragorn - my favourite character in Tolkein by the way! Thanks for the tips. O.K. we won't use any more larger fuses. When you say 'short to ground'...what does that mean? (sorry I am a girl!). And when you say 'loom' do you mean the rear chassis harness/loom that the repair was done on rather than the main or engine ones? I am hoping we can get a reasonably quick diagnosis with whatever the garage are going to do. Will keep in touch on the forum! Thank you. Do not ever install a larger fuse. The fuse is there to protect the wiring harness. Putting a larger fuse in just creates a fire risk. You presumably have a short to ground, somewhere in the loom, its gonna take a bit of testing with a meter to find it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Loom or Harness = any bunch of wiring taped together. short to ground = electricity from the wiring is going direct to earth/vehicle metal body or chassis frame & not going to the item it's meant to operate hth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver110 Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Yes sounds like a dead short to earth and the first place to be looking is the repair to the loom at the rear without any doubt, in fact if I was a gambling man the rear repair would be a dead cert aswell as a dead short. As stated fitting bigger fuses is a total no no! I hope the 20amp fuse blew straight away because if it didnt you may have melted the full length of the shorting wire damaging others in the loom at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 Thank you for the advice. In fact it was an ex-LR mechanic who suggested the bigger fuse! But for the record the 20A only lasted as long as the 15A, so I hope meltdown was avoided. Your thoughts re. the rear loom are interesting though how I am going to take that up with the garage I don't know, certainly something has changed since the repair, but they said at the time that no-one can guarantee wiring, even if you repair one bit, "anything else can go wrong", Great!! thank you though, will let you know what happens.... Yes sounds like a dead short to earth and the first place to be looking is the repair to the loom at the rear without any doubt, in fact if I was a gambling man the rear repair would be a dead cert aswell as a dead short. As stated fitting bigger fuses is a total no no! I hope the 20amp fuse blew straight away because if it didnt you may have melted the full length of the shorting wire damaging others in the loom at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 Just out of curiosity-is the fusebox shorting out on the bulkhead when you're replacing the fuses? the reason I ask this is because when I rebuilt my 90 with a later bulkhead some of the fuses had to be replaced as I blew some of them and had to replace them with equivalent amperage fuses-however on doing this I managed to push the fuse connections ie:the two female connectors that the fuses push into out of the back of the block that is the fusebox and make contact with the bulkhead behind the fusebox-yes I am that heavy handed!! to counter this I had to insulate the rear of the fusebox with a slim piece of plastic the same size as my fusebox between the bulkhead and the fusebox itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 12, 2010 Author Share Posted March 12, 2010 thank you, and yes that is has crossed my mind, because I know previously when we had problems with immobiliser we examined the fuseboard and found that it is jammed up against the bulkhead. I thought we had got it fixed but I don;t think there is any insulation so will check and maybe try what you suggest. Will let you know what happens...hopefully we will find an answer other than waving our arms out of the window every time the indicators blow! When we last had it in the garage I am sure they said they had checked the fuseboard, but I wonder if something got moved to cause this new shorting problem. A bientot! Olivia Just out of curiosity-is the fusebox shorting out on the bulkhead when you're replacing the fuses? the reason I ask this is because when I rebuilt my 90 with a later bulkhead some of the fuses had to be replaced as I blew some of them and had to replace them with equivalent amperage fuses-however on doing this I managed to push the fuse connections ie:the two female connectors that the fuses push into out of the back of the block that is the fusebox and make contact with the bulkhead behind the fusebox-yes I am that heavy handed!! to counter this I had to insulate the rear of the fusebox with a slim piece of plastic the same size as my fusebox between the bulkhead and the fusebox itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted March 12, 2010 Share Posted March 12, 2010 If I remember rightly it was the indicator circuit that was always the one to blow fuses before it was diagnosed and fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 If I remember rightly it was the indicator circuit that was always the one to blow fuses before it was diagnosed and fixed I think the previous posts suggesting a dead short are right. I'd disconnect the rear indicators and the link to the other rear lights at the joints behind the cover in the back right (looking towards the front of the car) of the rear tub, and measure the resistance from each wire to earth (except anything purple or purple and anything, as these are live all the time). If you get a zero reading anywhere, it'll possibly be on the main wiring loom which runs front to back, as it can rub on the chassis. You can follow it from the big plug near the bulkhead, down to the chassis and then out again through a hole near the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hello JBS, prior to the repair we didn't have any problems with fuses/shorting, just the lights playing up on the dash and then the front side and rear lights stopped working along with indicators and hazards, and though I don;t know what was going on with the fuses at the time (I wasn't using the car, Vincent was!) the garage diagnosed the problem with the rear loom where 6 or so wires had worn through and fused together. Ever since though it has been exclusively the indicator and hazards circuits that were affected and everything else seems to work fine. Having said that, Vincent fiddled with the fuseboard the other night after I passed on the previous advice re. fuseboard and insulation. He doesn't think there was any way shorting could have occurred through contact with the bulkhead as all the wires are bunched up in between the board and the bulkhead itself but since he 'had a look' the fuse has been fine. Of course this is good news, but as the car is booked to go back in tomorrow I am not sure whether to send it or not, I am worried it might happen again anytime and would like to get a proper diagnosis. Is LR wiring always this random? Thanks, Olivia If I remember rightly it was the indicator circuit that was always the one to blow fuses before it was diagnosed and fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hello Tinkerer, Thank you for the helpful advice. Haven't yet carried it out and am hoping this is something the garage can do (coward that I am !). When you say 'main loom that runs front to back' does that mean the rear loom? If this as you suggest, and as someone else also commented, is the source of the problem would it be better to get a new loom replacement made up and installed by way of eradicating further problems and any doubt? This is what I had hoped the garage would do last time round though they said you can't get new looms, though Autosparks will replicate one, as I discovered after help from the forum! Any thoughts gratefully received. Thanks, Olivia I think the previous posts suggesting a dead short are right. I'd disconnect the rear indicators and the link to the other rear lights at the joints behind the cover in the back right (looking towards the front of the car) of the rear tub, and measure the resistance from each wire to earth (except anything purple or purple and anything, as these are live all the time). If you get a zero reading anywhere, it'll possibly be on the main wiring loom which runs front to back, as it can rub on the chassis. You can follow it from the big plug near the bulkhead, down to the chassis and then out again through a hole near the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 'main loom that runs front to back' does that mean the rear loom? I the wiring on a 110 is in 3 sections. front or main loom [dash area,engine bay front lights, heater] chassis loom runs from the bulkhead through the chassis to the rear right corner rear loom [rear lights,fuel tank,rear wash/wipe if fitted, rear screen heater] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 the wiring on a 110 is in 3 sections. front or main loom [dash area,engine bay front lights, heater] chassis lom runs from the bulkhead through the chassis to the rear right corner rear loom [rear lights,fuel tank,rear wash/wipe if fitted, rear screen heater] Sorry, I got my looms muddled, Ralph (Western) is right . A diagram will help: Check the points arrowed in red, where the looms go through the chassis and body work. Also, if you have a trailer socket, check that out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Thanks, that's what I had understood, but my grasp of electrics, mechanics and everything is so basic I thought I had got confused again...the diagram is great - can I ask where it is from as I would love to get a copy (I work better with pictures!). At the moment our trailer socket is disconnected as we knew we have to replace the X member so wiring is all tied up behind at the moment. I am just about to buy a new rear X member, brakes calipers & pads, drop arm ball joint and new belt for the alternator to get the rest of the repairs done before MOT in 2 weeks. I hope one day I'll have learnt enough to be able to do more DIY. Thanks for the help, Olivia Sorry, I got my looms muddled, Ralph (Western) is right . A diagram will help: Check the points arrowed in red, where the looms go through the chassis and body work. Also, if you have a trailer socket, check that out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 110 parts book here workshop manual here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 17, 2010 Author Share Posted March 17, 2010 Thank you for those Western! All lights working at present, expensive MOT coming up, but hopefully we will get everything worked out eventually. Compared to everyone else's cars in the photos ours is positively neglected, but I hope we will get it looking better soon! Olivia 110 parts book here workshop manual here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 best wishes for a good MOT result, we would like to see this 'neglected' 110 when you get chance to stick a few photo's up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomenech Posted March 19, 2010 Author Share Posted March 19, 2010 I know, so would I! but even if I could work out how to paste photos (bearing in mind my website is about 5 years behind for the same reason) I would be too ashamed to show it. It's not parked in the Sahara, or partaking in any off road championships, and I haven't even fitted a roof-rack let alone extra lights or a snorkel....So much for girls on the forum! But I will try and do a photo-shoot soon... best wishes for a good MOT result, we would like to see this 'neglected' 110 when you get chance to stick a few photo's up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I know, so would I! but even if I could work out how to paste photos (bearing in mind my website is about 5 years behind for the same reason) I would be too ashamed to show it. It's not parked in the Sahara, or partaking in any off road championships, and I haven't even fitted a roof-rack let alone extra lights or a snorkel....So much for girls on the forum! But I will try and do a photo-shoot soon... or email the photo's to me & I'll add them for you or even better start your own album/thread in the members vehicle forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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