Fuel Economy Questions!! Cheapskate alert

[Puffernutter]

I had no idea the MPG increase from burning Rapeseed would be so much, i am even more keen now!! What twin tanks do you run? I have seen that a td5 tank would fit between the rear chassis members but is there a better option?

Rapeseed is the way - really need to go and buy some and see what happens!

Adam a technical article would be much appeciated, it will help Grant help me

Peter - yes the storage and work involved with the WVO is something that makes me hesitate. If Rapeseed can be bought for less than 80ppl and makes you go a lot further than the same volume of diesel then it seems well worth it.

I use the standard tank for SVO and I had another tank made that sits behind the middle row of seats for the diesel, it holds about 18l, it does mean that I need to fill it op rather to often for my liking!

My neighbour, with a Defender, has put a 90 fuel tank under the drivers seat - gives him about 65l of diesel! I can't do that as that space is occupied by my Eberspacher!

Cheers

Peter

[Adam001]

I will start writing a tech archive now with my experiences of it all

As for twin tanks I use a 43L marine plastimo tank for diesel and my standard 90L tank for the veg, cheapest method I found of doing it

I should clarify on the efficiency front, I just got 27mpg from a greenlaning trip fully fully laden (approx 2600kg) and normally I get around 35mpg.

Adam

[Adam001]

aaaanndddd..... I direct you here...

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=61515

[andy.cowman]

Tesco had CEREOL 100% pure sunflower oil for 80ppl.... to tempting. Chucked in ten litres and brimmed up with diesel. So far so good!! by my calculations thats £4 saved on the tank and I may go fractionally further. Just for my commute I use a tank a month so even at this ratio thats 50 quid at least a year to spend in the pub. Factor in trips all over the place and it is worth it.... if I can up the ratio then all the better.

Cheers Adam, just gonna have a read of that

[reb78]

aaaanndddd..... I direct you here...

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=61515

Thanks for doing that. Very helpful.

[andy.cowman]

Thanks Adam - I think I am going to go down the dual tank route as you have, however in place of a large tank in the back (I only have a 90!) I will look at fitting a td5 tank between the rear chasis members and use that for VEG and the underseat tank for diesel to start and purge on.

As for the Cereol Sunflower oil. I have 10 litres in the 50 litre tank so about 20% and it runs fine. It was very cold this morning and I must admit I think my glowplugs have packed up and yet she started fine.

Mission for the weekend is get the glowplugs functioning!

[Adam001]

Yeah at that mix you won't have any problems

Joys of owning a 110...lots and lots of fuel

[andy.cowman]

Well I think I should pop to tesco and make use of the offer while it lasts!! Stock pile a few litres!

[Range Rover Blues]

Don't veg oils also support the growth of bacteria that cause a sludge in the fuel tank which blocks the pump and filter.

It is my understanding that the 2,500l rule is for manufacturers of bio fuels not fuel substitutes, so technically veg oil is not exempt but bio derv is.

[andy.cowman]

Hi guys,

I have been reading on the HRMC website, this might be of interest

hrmc document

From this we should note the following two definitions:

Biofuel = Biodiesel, bioethanol or fuel substitute.

Fuel substitute = Any liquid used in place of a mineral (hydrocarbon) oil as fuel for any motor, engine or other machinery.

We can then look at the following sections, firstly think about you annual mileage, 2500 miles is about 50 full 50 litres tanks for my 90. At 300 miles a tank thats 15000 miles a year and since I am doing a small mix in mine at the moment it would go a lot lot lot further until I used 2500 litres. So I think the below applies.

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users

If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

* any biofuel, or

* any other fuel substitute or additive

within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.

But I need to keep records.. no big deal it is the volume and date on which you chucked the oil in the tank. Easy enough to maintain.

4.9.1 Exempt producers’ records

If you are an exempt producer (as defined in paragraph 4.2.1) you only need to record and keep the following information:

* the date of each supply and/or own use

* the amount in standard litres of each supply or own use.

You should check the amounts produced at the end of each month. If you have produced 2,500 litres or more in the last 12 months, or expect to produce 2,500 litres or more in the next 12 months, you must contact us within 30 days to register your premises as described in paragraph 2.5.

Important: The following paragraph has the force of law.

Under the powers given by regulation 6 of the Biofuels and Other Fuel Substitutes Payment of Excise Duties, etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2007, HMRC require that the records of litres and dates as specified in paragraph 4.10 below are kept by exempt producers and preserved for six years, or for a lesser period if HMRC allow.

top ^

4.10 How long must I keep my records?

Registered and exempt producers must keep records for six years. If this will cause you problems you should contact the Helpline on 0845 010 9000 who can advise you about asking for permission to keep your records for a shorter period.

So from this it suggests that we are using a fuel substitute which is a biofuel and you may use less than 2500 litres of it with out paying duty however you must maintain records. In this way it is perfectly legal to use fresh sunflower / rapeseed etc or pick up used and filter it yourself.

15000 miles a year on pure veg before I have to pay duty? Between breakdowns my truck can hardly manage 5000 miles!!

[Yostumpy]

Just my 10p worth. Wallace has run on 50/50 mix now for 2 years. 50mpg? dont think so!, Wallace averages 28mpg on any thing, If I buy my svo for 79ppl and mix it that works out to be the equivalent of 33mpg, BUT I took advantage of a Tesco offer a while back, 3lts of rapeseed for £2.53 BOGOF!!! needless to say I ended up with about 300ltrs of the stuff, stored everywhere it is, and this works out at 42ppl, and if i use this 50/50 it equates to 42mpg.. In the winter, sort of frosty november-end feb ish, I mix 15 ltr of svo in a jerry can with 1 ltr of unleaded. WHY? well if you've ever tried pouring 15ltrs of veg oil out of a jerry can thats bin in a garage at 0 deg its a bit thick, so the petrol thins it down, which is also a good thing for the engine when its that cold. SIDE EFFECTS? no. Fillig up! the best place is out side the supermarket on a Sat afternoon, you always get the divvies that ask ' does that really work then' No I reply, that shuts 'em up. If your only doing short commute runs with the engine staying relatively cool then I'd stay at 30%veg. Oh one last thing, ENJOY that smell""" Actually there is one more thing, someone stated that for £15 a month saving 'they couldn't be bothered' with all the hassle, ( or words to..) well £15 a month is actually £180 per annum, almost your tax disc money ! i'm just lucky with this tesco stuff, 60ltrs of dino at 118ppl =£70.80 whereas 6o ltres at 50/50 = £48 £22.80 saving per tank. even at 79ppl thats a saving of £11.70 per tank. Good luck.

[andy.cowman]

Cheers Yostumpy, so what mix do you run? I went back to tesco and bought 45litres of sunflower oil at 80ppl, would buy more but need to move house in December!! I agree about the £15 a month being worth it. Its not the point that the saving on one tank is small. Why would you want to spend any more than you have to? I tend to fuel up at the super market when doing the shopping anyway so its no skin off my nose buying some oil in the supermarket instead.

I have decided that I like the smell now anyway. Better than diesel!!!

It was a frosty morning and my truck started perfectly

[Yostumpy]

Hi Andy, as it says really 50/50 for me. frost isn't a problem, its more the prolonged cold snaps. I'll start adding petrol to the mix maybe mid nov, but does depend on the ambient temp at night, i normally 'top up' about 1/2 tank, so about 200 miles, I pour in 15ltrs svo and top it up 'top top!' with dino. Not really 50/50 as this can be anywhere between 170-250 miles but if its near 250 i'll stik 18-21 ltrs of oil in, not an exact science. Its great if you can do your weekly shop at the super and get 5p off ltr as well as using their oil!