TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 As it's coming up to the time for me to wire up my batteries, winch etc, I've been reading the threads on this and other forums regarding MSA regulations for battery isolating. Do we have a definitive answer for this issue? I don't wish to start another discussion thread. I will be running two batteries, x-charge and one front winch with albright. Many thanks. edit: i'm wanting to compete in lrs round 1 and my truck is road legal (disco 1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHT Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 have to be able to isolate from out side the vehicle and have it cut ALL electrics Make sure your isolators are upto the job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Do we know 100% if a pull cable operating two kill switches complies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocha Bear Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Not sure if we know for definite but I cant see it being a problem. 1 pull to kill all power... easy! don't think there is a reason why it cant be more than one isolator that you kill in the process. Does there have to be an isolator pull on the out side of the vehicle? or just easily assessable? I'm in the process of designing my system so would be good to know! Mocha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 I was under the impression it was easily accessible. I think I'll make the actual isolator switches easily accessible from the drivers seat, and the pull cord handle easily accessible on the outside of the vehicle. Both with suitable sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 are the 2nd one down type switches up to the job? http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/battconns/battisol.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocha Bear Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thats the isolator i am using for the vehicle electrics as it has the relay to help kill ignition (there are other ways but this is an easy way ). Then I am going to use a plain type isolators (as the top one is) for the winch circuits. i have been using the latter for a few months and haven't had a problem, seem to handle the current draw fine. Mocha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Do you have one or two batteries? I'd prefer to use this type of heavy duty isolator for the winch circuit But I don't think a cable would be able to operate the switch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The plastic bodied switches are not up to withstanding sustained winching currents, the Durite switch above is much more suitable. The FIA compliant plastic switch is fine for the vehicle electrics and starting circuit etc. The durite switch could probably be made to be cable operated. Whether a single cable is going to successfully operate 4 switches at once, is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Am I right in thinking I'd only need two switches? One for master battery, ignition etc. this type: One for aux battery (which is only used to supply my winch), this type: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHT Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 as far as i'm aware the pulled kill switch must kill All electrics engine and winch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocha Bear Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The plastic ones haven't let me down yet! I only use one battery so don't have the same problems as you might find with two. As far as operating multiple keys on one cable there are many ways, i have taken inspiration from BMX gyro systems, just going to fabricate up a couple of cable splitter plates and run separate cables to all isolators, should also make adding isolators easy and cheap if needed. will just have to see if it works i guess! The durite switches are already capable of cable operation, all you need is a hole in the key lever! Mocha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Am I right in thinking I'd only need two switches? Yes, the FIA switch in the supply to your normal vehicle wiring, and the Durite isolator in the supply to your winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, the FIA switch in the supply to your normal vehicle wiring, and the Durite isolator in the supply to your winch. Good, thanks for that. I'll order up the switches, cabling, and a pull cable and see if it'll work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I am planning to mount a bracket of some type mounted on the dash top and then have 2 or possibly 3 cables to it so that when it operated it will pull both of the metal keyed type switches off that I currently use, (no pun in the current bit sorry), At the moment I use a three of the Durite metal keyed ones, one for the cars 12 volt electrics and a pair in parallel for the winches to share out the load, either of these will do the job on their own but I've used a pair for reliabilty. I have a 8274 twin Bowmotor 2 front, 8274 single XP rear and single XP M8000 centre, so if we're doing something technical there are times when I operate more than one winch at once so the current draw could be quite high at times, so this one for all isolater causes some bit problems so I'm hoping the pull cables are workable,. I've used them before by drilling the lever as far out as possible (for mechanical effort) and passing the cable through, but not tried more than one at once so here goes, will report back soon. I got the cables from Rally stuff suppliers they use them for all sorts. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Good info there. Can I ask why you used a metal key durite type for the vehicle electrics instead of the plastic key type with the relay for ignition etc? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 with the relay for ignition etc? There's no relay, just two switches, one normally open, one normally closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 In my case 100Amp alternator suppling a petrol V8, rear radiator with 3 fans and electric water pump, front fans for autobox/ hyrosteer coolers, Megasquirt (I know thats minimal), winch solonoids (they are on vehicle 12 volt side), headlamps and spot lamps when used on night stages, and your up towards if not over 100amps constant, and that's without the starter motor. But the main reason is they are much more reliable and IF needed can be stripped and cleaned inside if they've been wet etc. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobyMellin Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 If I can't get one pull switch to operate two kill switches very well, I'll try running a pull cable on each switch, then linking the handles of these together, by a plate or something. A single pull cable would attach to this plate and the handle would be located on the outside of the car. May sound complicated, but I think it's got more chance of working than a single cable operating two or more switches, especially if they're different type switches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHT Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've got the big metal breckers. I run one for the earth complete for the whole vehicle (now i'm running bigger motors need to double this up) and isolate the positive power to the winches. So when you kill one switch it isolates the whole vehicle. I wouldn't bother with the red plastic ones there cheap and chearful, and like boothy says when you add up all the electrics our trucks run you'll probably find they just arn't up to the job anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've decided to go for the remote solenoid option for mine. A single solenoid on each winch supply triggered from the FIA master kill switch and my on dash winch switch (that kills all the control circuits to the winch solenoids). I'm using one of these for each winch circuit, located in the battery box... Click here If you look at the specs for the solenoid it has a slightly better current rating than the winch solenoids. Being in the battery box also makes it much easier to bypass should one of them fail for some reason. Once activated they take just over 1A to hold them closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've decided to go for the remote solenoid option for mine. A single solenoid on each winch supply triggered from the FIA master kill switch and my on dash winch switch (that kills all the control circuits to the winch solenoids). Do you think this solution sits within the rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHT Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've decided to go for the remote solenoid option for mine. A single solenoid on each winch supply triggered from the FIA master kill switch and my on dash winch switch (that kills all the control circuits to the winch solenoids). the problem with only kiling the control cuircuits to your winches is when the solinoids decided to weld them selves in the live position. if this happens and the person pulling the switch is out side your motor will stop and your winch carry on. hence why when you kill the main feed iin my motor it isolates the batteries completly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 the problem with only kiling the control cuircuits to your winches is when the solinoids decided to weld them selves in the live position. if this happens and the person pulling the switch is out side your motor will stop and your winch carry on. hence why when you kill the main feed iin my motor it isolates the batteries completly Dave's solution uses extra contactors to isolate the winches. It could be argued that because these are not normally used to switch the motor under load, they are much less likely to wear the contacts, and to suffer from arc-welding issues. This puts them in a very similar situation to normal isolator switches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boothy Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 DaveW do you feel that these will offer good reliability after a period of time, especially as they could be working near their capacity for long periods of time, unlike Albrights that relatively speaking only work for short bursts and are not the best bit of kit, but are the the chosen favourite. I work in an industry where we switch high current/voltages up to 25Kv and always massively overate for reliabilty and we usually find that a simple switch is the most robust relaible answer, but never the less I still like it. Some rule this one.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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