FIP advance

[PaulN]

Just for your interest.

http://d24t.com/show...tting-in-video.

This is for a different engine (older VW engines) but uses the same injector pump.

Steve

Yeah - thanks for that Steve. That's more or less the the process we used except the pump is slightly different.

We're dialled in a 1.4 lift and the timing pin slides straight in so we're exactly right but for the fact that it appears that for non egr versions we should be at 1.54 as previously mentioned.

Now I think, and from the looks of your vid, that the higher the number the more advanced you get. That I know would stop the smoking but would it increase the noise?

Two things concern me;

1) provided there a clockwise rotation of the pump spindle one should be advancing the timing but the dial reading might be going down if we're on the back side of the cam/lobe dunno ??

2) I have never seen, heard or read any advice given to those wishing to remove their EGR valves that they should also be adjusting the timing!!??

[Boydie]

Paul,

I think I may be able to resolve this question in the next couple of weeks. I've purchased a diesel timing unit that senses the fuel injection via a clamp in transducer on the No.1 cylinder fuel line to the injector. It also has a tachometer to enable accurate setting on the idle speeds. I also have (from my petrol head days) a magnetic timing protractor that will clamp onto the crank pulley.

I know from recent endeavours that the timing mark on my crank pulley is at 0 degrees (TDC). I noted this when I replaced the head and timing belt and cogs. While the head was off I "dialed" in the camshaft and doweled the camshaft cog so the timing is as close to perfect standard as it can possibly be. I mention this because it was at least 3 degrees out . The 4 injectors were replaced with genuine Bosch units and the pump was replaced with a works exchange unit.

Okay step one will be to run the engine, set the idle to 720RPM and see exactly what the standard injection point is, my guess is that it will be around 5 degrees BTDC. Next I'll adjust the FIP in very small increments until its at 10 degrees, measure the distance that I've moved the pulley and inform you of the exact adjustment distance required to achieve this.

I have to say at this point however that I'll reset my 300TDi back to standard. My belief is that the LR design engineers are far more qualified than I am in the principles of diesel combustion and if the engine was going to run better at 10 degrees BTDC then they would have made it so. My gut feeling is that the increased combustion pressures and resulting combustion temperatures will have a detrimental effect on the reliability and working life of the total engine package, increased head temperatures, main and big end bearings, cylinder head valve seat failure, turbo life etc.

I'm not always interested in getting there fast but I always want to get there, reliability therefore is far more important than a small gain in engine power. The 300TDi in 23L form puts out 95HP which is considerable when compared to say an non-turbo 6 cylinder 4.2 litre Toyota or 3.0 litre Nissan. The LR does however have a weak point and thats the engine cooling system, the side flow radiator design is woeful. I replaced the core in mine, the standard core consists of 4 rows of 1/4" tube, my replacement core has 4 rows of 1/2", not only is the colant quantity increased but the surface area is almost doubled, the tubes being offset. The pump was rebuilt with a decent cast impellor, replacing the pressed metal original this was machined down to suit the housing and then doweled onto the shaft.

I no longer have the cooling problem I used to have and is why I ended up replacing the cylinder head in the first place! The centrifugal fan works great, it no longer overheats or even gets near the design temperature of 90 degrees C even on plus 40 degree days and on long trips I carry a fan spanner and it comes off and gets stowed in the rear.

[PaulN]

Thanks for taking interest Boydie.

I am keen to hear your results - it's good of you to offer the data.

I have read your entry with interest - you have done a lot of work there and I note your comments therein.

Can I say that I am keen to make changes in order to achieve optimum running and primarily to alleviate symptoms - not to create a racer!

You have picked up on the fact that it is not clear to any amateur like me, when trying to problem solve, where the start point is, the incremental shifts are and where a known end point is - in respect of setting FIP timing - unless one has the tools you are referring to.

My truck runs really well (very well) and has had a lot of work done to the engine internals to try and stop the smoke. It didn't!

The only thing that did fix it was a small shift to the pump timing by a small amount - but a shift into the unknown!

That did not, however, solve the engine knockiness. Without these two issues I wouldn't be pursuing FIP timing at all.

Anyway - sitting tight!

[piper109]

I think you are being overly worried about the timing. If you increase the advance and the engine gets a lot louder, back it off till it sounds better. After all, this engine is a small step up from a tractor engine and is just not very sensitive. The factory sets the timing so it will run pretty well anywhere in the world including places where the fuel may not be wonderful so its probably not optimised for high quality fuel. There is no need to be a perfectionist.

If it runs great, leave it alone. If you know where its timed on the dial indicator, keep a note of it so you can put it back there.

The 300 tdi does not run hot. If yours did, there was probably something wrong like a partially plugged up radiator. Mine used to run hot going uphills till I cleaned out the rad properly. I can also tell you from personal experience that there is nothing to be gained by taking the fan off if you have a good working viscous clutch so save yourself the effort. I use an electric fan which never comes on unless I use the aircon and the consumption does not change.

People drive these things hard for hours in hot deserts so unless you are heading to the Hamersley range you should not need anything other than standard equipment.

Good luck,

Steve

[Boydie]

I wrote a reply to this but it seems to have disapeared into the either of computor space, in short I've purchased a timer that works off a transducer which is clamped onto the injection line to No.1 cylinder.

[muddychris300tdi]

I would like to see your results as my disco is very slow to start on a cold morning and smokes in the morning but then is fine from then on. Chris.

[Boydie]

I hope to be able to resolve this in the new year.

I have purchased a Diesel transducer timing light. It includes a tachometer accurate to 2 RPM @ 1000.

Once I've taken delivery I'll ensure that the fuel injection my 300TDi is set to factory standard which I believe to be 5 degrees BTDC at 720 RPM. I'll then alter the timing of the FIP to give me the requested 10 degrees and advise you on the distance that you will need to move the FIP cog in order to reach it.

A couple of points here, when I renewed my cylinder head I checked and "dialed" in the camshaft and then doweled the camshaft to teh camshaft sprocket, it was around 3 degrees out of perfect, a laborious task but one well worth the effort. Secondly I fitted a new timing belt and new cogs to the FIP and to the camshaft, new injectors and a Bosch exchange FIP.

For my part once I've done this and reported back to you I'll be putting my 300 TDi 23l back to factory standard, my reasons are that if the engine design engineers thought that 10 degrees was better than 5 then it would have been so, I think that the additional combustion pressures that will be experienced and therfore the resulting higher combustion temperatures while giving a short term hight power output will long term have a detrimental effect on the cylinder head, valves, pistons & rings, main and big end bearings and the turbo.

Everything has a cost ................................

[PaulN]

I wrote a reply to this but it seems to have disapeared into the either of computor space, in short I've purchased a timer that works off a transducer which is clamped onto the injection line to No.1 cylinder.

Hey Boydie - thanks again! Your post that you seem to have lost is visible at post #27.

However, it appears that others as well as myself will look forward to your results and I for one understand your point re returning to Factory set up.

As a matter of interest - from whom did you get the timing light? Probably far too expensive for the home DIYer!

[Boydie]

The timing "light" was purchased from "Design Technologies Incorporated" a USA company and the unit is a TECH-TIME 3300-S. The imported cost in USD (Australian Dollars) was $795.00.

It consists of three main components,

1.) The Transducer -- the size of this item you have to nominate as they are made to suit the OD of the fuel delivery lines as it is clamped onto No.1 cylinder fuel line, in my case with the Discovery 6mm OD

2.) the Zenon strobe light

3.) A Digital Tachometer that runs off the fuel impulse transducer. Their claim is it's accurate to 2 RMP @ 1000.

As there is only the one mark on the LR Discovery crank pulley and timing cover case a protractor fixed to the face of the pulley is nessersary if you want to know the angle of injection timing, good quality magnetic ones are available, I got mine years ago from a generic autoshop.

You're possibly right about the cost to the average DIY'er but it's a handy bit of gear and for me tax deductable.