Thys Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 When My Disco 1 300 Tdi T-boned a new Fortuner, last year in August 2010, the repairs was done by cutting out the entire engine bay body work, and replacing with another bay from a donor Disco. This included the full front section. I opted to fit a mammoth bull bar, as the replacement aerodynamic Disco front bumper was just not affordable, and secondhand units not available. When collecting the Disco, she ran 15 ºC hotter than usual, I have a temperature gauge measuring the actual head temperature, over and above the LR temperature gauge. Having a good look underneath the front, I noted a big gap between the back of the new bull bar and the radiator front. I closed the gap, and the temperature returned to normal, between 90 and 100 ºC on the gauge, but.........travelling over 110 km/h, or doing a trail, the head temperature goes up to 110 - 118 ºC. If I decrease speed, the temp drops to the normal range. So what did I do up to now: 1. Radiator re-built and re-cored with a copper core. 2. New viscous hub. 3. New Q&H water pump, old one dropped a bearing. 4. New OE thermostat. 5. New OE expansion tank cap. 6. No loss of water. 7. Had the air con unit's refrigerant charge checked, it was over filled, and we set the charge back to normal, this did give a small improvement in running temperature. This afternoon I started to browse in the engine bay again, and then noted the two large gaps between the two vertical sides of the radiator and condenser. See attached picture. This puzzles me, as I am sure the original Tdi engine bay did not have those big gaps. Now for the catch. The engine bay panels, sides and front came from a Disco 1 V8. Is there a difference in the front section and radiator frames between the Tdi and V8? The body work was repaired without re-painting, we simply bolted on the V8's bonnet and left front fender. The V8's bonnet had a insulating cover on the inside, which we left. Can this be the result of excessive heat build up, as without the blanket, heat can de dissipated freely? Ok, this is a mouth full, but I love my 300 Tdi, and she drives like a dream, just did 2600 km to and through Baviaanskloof, hassle free, except the occasional high running temperatures. I would like to get you opinions on this new years quiz. Many thanks and happy LR km's for 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 If it is the same as an RRC, then there is a sort of door seal in that gap, but of course may be different for Disco. I do doubt that the cooling issue is due to this however, first thing I would do is get the coolant checked for exhaust gasses to rule out a head gasket failure, and check thoroughly for air locks, which I believe 300TDIs are renowned for. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks Bowie 69, I will do the coolant/exhausat gas check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I've made some heavy modifications to the front end of my Range Rover (same layout, same radiator) and this hasn't made any difference to engine cooling. Have you fitted a seed net in front of the rad? I had one fitted in Africa and noticed same symptoms - took it off and temp immediately went back to normal. Is the Mammoth bull bar disrupting air flow through the rad or intercooler? Have you got spots bolted on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I can confirm the differences in the width of the radiator assembly of the 300tdi and the radiator of the V8. I converted a V8 Disco to 300tdi and one of the things I had to do was modify the side pieces alongside each side of the radiator. Fortunately there were two sets of holes there and all I had to do was drill out the pop rivets and re-locate the angles to the other set of holes closer in to the 300tdi radiator assembly. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks for that info Piper109, now I know what to start looking for at my favourite used spares LR supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 my Range Rover was V8, and I changed to TDi, the TDi rad fitted neatly in the slot left by the V8 rad. I do have a bit of a gap round the edge, could probably get a finger round it, but I've never had any cooling probs, even through several deserts. I wonder if you bull bar is creating some kind of vacuum or vortex behind which is stopping flow through the rad or intercooler? Is the normal land rover temp guage reading hot as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Where abouts is the secondary temp sender fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 my Range Rover was V8, and I changed to TDi, the TDi rad fitted neatly in the slot left by the V8 rad. I do have a bit of a gap round the edge, could probably get a finger round it, but I've never had any cooling probs, even through several deserts. I wonder if you bull bar is creating some kind of vacuum or vortex behind which is stopping flow through the rad or intercooler? Is the normal land rover temp guage reading hot as well? The LR gauge did move up from the normal position, but not past the 3/4 position. I am beginning to think the bull bar and sposts and winch controller box may all be part of the problem, interfering with the air flow patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Did you put the plastic panel , no 11 back in , i had similar when i removed it when i put a large intercooler in. Refitted and all was ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 This shows the frame for radiator a intercooler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks for the data sheets Fozsug, yes the bottom panel, no 11 is there, and that was one of the initial problems, there was a gap of about 2" between the front of the panel and the back of the custum bull bar. The closing of the gap dropped the normal running temperatures, but not the extreme driving temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thys, Does the new radiator core have the bypass hole in it as per the original Disco radiator ? I had similiar symptoms with my Disco when going through thick sand, and towing my off-road trailer. Closed the bypass, and problem solved But it now runs too cold in winter; I will partially block the radiator airflow next winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Thanks for that info Piper109, now I know what to start looking for at my favourite used spares LR supplier. I dont think you will need to buy anything. Just drill out the pop rivets and re rivet the sealing strips into the other set of holes, about 15 mm further in, both sides. Who is your favourite used spares LR supplier might I ask ? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Where abouts is the secondary temp sender fitted? A.f.a.i.k they are all at the thermostat housing, not sure which one does what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Thys, Does the new radiator core have the bypass hole in it as per the original Disco radiator ? I had similiar symptoms with my Disco when going through thick sand, and towing my off-road trailer. Closed the bypass, and problem solved But it now runs too cold in winter; I will partially block the radiator airflow next winter Hi Steve, when I had the radiator core replaced with a copper core the by-pass hole was not in the copper core. In South Africa, with our higher ambient temperatures, even in winter it is a common mod on the standard aluminum cores to block the by-pass hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I dont think you will need to buy anything. Just drill out the pop rivets and re rivet the sealing strips into the other set of holes, about 15 mm further in, both sides. Who is your favourite used spares LR supplier might I ask ? Thanks, Steve I prefer using Rob Leimer's Leimers Land Rover, he now has a new shop in Kya Sands, British 4x4 is also a good supplier and then Independant 4x4. I have not tried any of the other LR used spares suppliers yet. There were definately side strips on my Disco 300 Tdi's radiator frame prior to the accident, so I will sourse them. I also had reports from mother 300 Tdi owners who experienced temperature problems with replacement cheap viscous fan hubs. They work OK up to cruising speeds of 100 - 110 km/h, but go above that speed, and the temperature climbs. As my Disco is not an early morning traffic commuter any more (I got myself a little Chev Avio 1.6 Auto), I locked the viscous hub, and will do some tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 The sealing strips I mentioned were present on my V8 (1998/99 model). I just moved them. They are a light gauge angle with a rubber seal fitted to the inner edge which buts up against the radiator frame assembly. I dislike the viscous clutch too and in this country a replacement was very expensive and hard to find. The 300 tdi was never officially imported. I chose to use a two speed fan from a mid 90's Volvo 700/900 or 850 with its associated relay, fitted inside the fan shroud, along with a X-eng temperature switch in the lower hose to control it. Its wired to come on in low with the a/c. Otherwise it switches on to low with the X-eng temp switch and high if ever the second stage temp switch kicks in (it never has). If you lock up the viscous clutch you will get tired of the howl and knowing that your mileage is down. That fixed fan might pull 30 HP at high revs. Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Steve, when I had the radiator core replaced with a copper core the by-pass hole was not in the copper core. In South Africa, with our higher ambient temperatures, even in winter it is a common mod on the standard aluminum cores to block the by-pass hole. Hi Thys, I am in South Africa And my forum name is Sabre, not Steve Groetnis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Thys, I am in South Africa And my forum name is Sabre, not Steve Groetnis Sabre, my apologies the fingers and the head was not in sinc.....of in onse mooi Moedertaal, die grysfaktor begin soms deurbreek...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Sabre, my apologies the fingers and the head was not in sinc.....of in onse mooi Moedertaal, die grysfaktor begin soms deurbreek...... I fully understand, being past 50 for some time now Coming back to your problem, I do not think the bull bar is the problem. Or the lights. I had two big spotlights on my car, and drove under similiar conditions with the lights mounted, and with the lights removed. Found no change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I went rubber hunting during lunch today. At Independant 4x4 I found Disco 1 Tdi and V8 wrecks. All had vertical sealing rubbers, both sides of the radiator front, to seal the gaps. The V8 has a wider opening, the plates holding the vertical seal strips, are rivited in place, thus the difference betwwen the V8 and Tdi's radiator frames is the width, the plates are in different positions, bought the rubbers, so I will be having a nice LR session in my garage, actually, I started earlier this evening............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I went rubber hunting during lunch today. At Independant 4x4 I found Disco 1 Tdi and V8 wrecks. All had vertical sealing rubbers, both sides of the radiator front, to seal the gaps. The V8 has a wider opening, the plates holding the vertical seal strips, are rivited in place, thus the difference betwwen the V8 and Tdi's radiator frames is the width, the plates are in different positions, bought the rubbers, so I will be having a nice LR session in my garage, actually, I started earlier this evening............ Yup, thats what I had tried to explain. Its easy once youve seen it :-) cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thanks Steve, your are right, look and learn helps a lot, that's one of the methods one of my instructors taught me while doing my apprenticeship............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper109 Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Thanks Steve, your are right, look and learn helps a lot, that's one of the methods one of my instructors taught me while doing my apprenticeship............ Me t00, though it was a very long time ago :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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