TFC Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Does a 'Way' signposted as a Byway have a legal meaning/definition? I visited Salisbury Plain in my Landy for the firsts time last Saturday (22 Sep 2012). As a background; I had done some homework and had visited the Wiltshire County Council website and viewed their 'map' - I noted their advice to visit their office and view the 'Definitive Map'. I also visited the various MoD websites for Salisbury Plain and read the September Newsletter. As a basis for my trip I used the route mentioned in the LRO magazine for Aug 2012 and carefully transferred it to my laptop running 2012 Memory Map. I also had a latest edition OS quarter million paper map and a compass - just in case. It was a great day out with wonderful weather and no red flags. I expected it to be packed, but only saw two short convoys of 4x4's, three or four soloists in Defenders and a few dirt bikes. Thanks should go to one of the Land Rover convoys for parking half on the 'way' for a comfort break - no thought that somebody else might pass-by. Even with a 'route' to follow, I was paying particular attention to the signs posted at regular intervals. My route mostly followed BOAT's, which I think I fully understand, but I noticed there were other signs on the same post. I'm OK with 'Permissive Byway' and 'Restricted Byway', but some signs merely read 'Byway'. Am I correct that on the OS maps a 'Byway' is marked by dashed lines both sides and listed as: "Other road, drive or track, fenced and unfenced". And that it is OK to drive on a 'Byway'. I've searched on this website and on the Internet and can't find a satisfactory explanation of what a 'Byway' is. Some sources refer to BOAT's and then continue the explanation using the name 'Byway'. I also noticed that the Wiltshire County Council 'map' only lists 'Byways' and not BOAT's. By the way; at least one of those LRO routes seems to imply that the author had not actually driven them for their entire length. E.g. the Western end of "Greenlane 4 (C-F)" Ref: SU092461, where the BOAT merges with the road. If you go that way, the BOAT turns left in front of the electrical sub-station and goes over a real big hump to the road - an on foot reconnaissance is definitely advised. Sorry for the rambling question. Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Byway = BOAT in my book but would love to hear otherwise. I think it's coz it's short for byway open to all traffic and so fits nicely on a post sign. The word boat would confuse those not in the know. Will be on the Plain all weekend coming so will look for those signs and cross ref to my maps...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Am I correct that on the OS maps a 'Byway' is marked by dashed lines both sides and listed as: "Other road, drive or track, fenced and unfenced". And that it is OK to drive on a 'Byway'. No that is incorrect. A Byway is marked by green crosses, +++++ on the 1:25000 scale and red crosses and dashes, +-+-+-+ on the 1:50000 scale. Yes you are ok to drive on Byways unless any closure order is in force. The term BOAT is short for Byway Open to All Traffic. BOAT or Byway, the same thing. Permissive byway. Ok to drive but probably wont be marked as a byway on your map. Restricted byway. Not drivable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Somehow I don't think so DrRob. Attached is an example from SP. Some of the 'Byway' signs are black writing on a white background, as in the photo, and some are white writing on a green background. Whereas all the BOAT signs I saw were black writing on a white background as per the photo. Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Thanks Paul, But the legend on OS maps clearly states that the series of crosses are Byways open to all traffic. What we seem to have on the SP signs is something else "A Byway". Surely the MoD are not short of sign paint :-) Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It should also be noted that a Byway / BOAT is legally a public road just not been tarmaced. As such all road regulation apply, reckless driving / riding is still an offence (you are far more likely to be reckless than speeding on most byways), causing distress or risk to other users (i.e. walkers) is also an offence the other side of that is any attempt to block or obstruct a road is also an offence (unless done by legal authority) so they are not allowed to stand in the middle of the road to block you or park vehicles across the entrance (seen both). All vehicles must be fully road legal, taxed, insured, etc. They can also be restricted in the same way as any other road, i.e. by local order (TRO), on normally roads this would be done for road works etc on byways it could be damage to the road or just because some one has shouted loudly at councilors that they want the ROAD past or through there land closed because they don't like people using it or walkers want it to be only for them. Restricted byways came about as many councils didn't both to classify what were unclassified rights of way with unclear rights, they were supposed to have done this but it cost money so many didn't bother so a back dated cut off was issued (to stop late claims) and if they hadn't bothered to classify them yet they down graded all of them and restricted vehicle use. ( I maybe be being a bit cynical here but thats what it looks like to me). I suspect the sign post thing is just the age when the signs were erected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzilla7 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Join GLASS: http://www.glass-uk.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 I'm starting to suspect that indeed a 'Byway' is a 'Byway open to all traffic'. I have just sent an e-mail to Wiltshire Council for a ruling and will let you know what they say. When on Salisbury Plain in particular, I didn't want to risk driving on anything other than that clearly signposted as a 'Byway open to all traffic'. I also notice, from the Memory Map GPS 'route' I followed, that some portions of a small minority of the 'Byway open to all traffic' marked on the half million OS map are not exactly in the position marked. The 'BOAT' at an angle across the lower Eastern half of the Larkhill Racecource actually follows the perimeter of the racecource - as it does on the Wiltshire Council online map of Public Rights of Way. The wonders of modern science eh :-) Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 There have been lots of changes on the Plain as a result of Project Ubique... new signs in part of that whole effort. In most cases, the 'old' byway signs are still there (as are the byways), but the newly created or modified routes have the new signs. I think the reason for adding the "Open to All Traffic" to some is because others are (as you pointed out) "Subject to Flag". Whenever I'm there, I use Memory Map as a guide, not a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Project Ubique. The reply I got from MOD in July: "The speed in which the changes can take place is dictated by the work load of the Department for Transport (DfT) and the smooth running of the legal process. We are confident that the DfT application will be dealt with before the end of the year. However, I’m pleased to say that the ground work has already been carried out and the vast majority of proposed alternative routes running around the Range already exist as permissive routes, so are already open to use by the public (subject to flag in some locations). The application to the DfT is of course necessary to formalise these routes as public rights of way for the long term." Yes, paper and digital maps doesn't always match 100% on the ground.......use common sense and local signage....one I know goes across a ploughed field - don't drive over a farmers workplace!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Here's the reply I've just received from Ali Stewart, the Rights of Way Officer:- "A byway and a byway open to all traffic are the same thing. A restricted byway cannot be accessed by motorised vehicles." Regards, Ali Stewart Rights of Way Officer Wiltshire Council Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 As far as I can see, the paper half million OS map is the same as the digital edition on Memory Map AND Bing Maps. Using Bing Maps it's possible to fix your position and then 'toggle' between half million and quarter million for a comparison. However, the OS paper quarter million map I have is more accurate with the beginning, end and route of BOAT's in some cases. As an example the half million map is slightly innaccurate with the BOAT around the "German Village" from the South. At the correct location on the ground I was faced with MoD signs which said "No Entry to Civilian Traffic", on the left, on the right and ahead. I had to retrace my steps several hundred metres South down the broad gravelled way in order to find access to the BOAT visible through the trees to the West. Whereas the paper quarter million OS map showed the turn off on the BOAT accurately. Doesn't The Ordnance Survey use aerial photography to make/update their maps? Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Most likely not the case in this instance but some maps have deliberate errors inserted so the makers can prove if someone is copying them. OS were paid out 20 million by the AA when they were caught out http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1203480.stm also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/c/cd/19990808_AA_in_20m_battle_over_copied_OS_maps.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Byway = BOAT in my book but would love to hear otherwise. I think it's coz it's short for byway open to all traffic and so fits nicely on a post sign. The word boat would confuse those not in the know. Will be on the Plain all weekend coming so will look for those signs and cross ref to my maps...... Yep Byway = BOAT Rangers and Wardens will more than likely look favourable on those who have obviously done their homework and have marked up maps and memory map etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yep Byway = BOAT Rangers and Wardens will more than likely look favourable on those who have obviously done their homework and have marked up maps and memory map etc. When you're right, you're right :-) Have a good visit to SP. Cheers, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRob Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 When you're right, you're right :-) Have a good visit to SP. Cheers, Tony Cheers! Forecast currently favourable....see you out there sometime.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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