lansalot Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 OK, so having that firework lit under my arse, I decided to power-up the MS1 today to see if I could get it to chat to PC again (had laptop upgrade some time back, never got the USB/232 dongle to work, threw it all in cupboard etc). This time, it's a PC with proper RS232. Once I'd established that my transformer was screwed, I dragged in an old motorbike battery and hooked MS1 to that. RS232 to the server, PuTTY to COM1 and it was sitting there at a "Boot>" prompt. Did an X and it appeared to carry on booting. Then did an "S" and "T" command was showing full connection with 029y3 for S and 029y4 for T. Bid odd, but result ? Started megatune, connection succeeded. Blew down the MAP hose - dial fluctuated on screen. Result ! Configured my wee bluetooth RS232 adapter and connected it to server, set 9600-N-8-1 and paired it with my Nexus 7. Seems OK. Plugged the bluetooth adapter into the MS1 and asked MSDroid to read it - said it had paired with BT but was having problems querying the MS1. OK, back onto full RS232 on the server. MS1 sitting at "Boot>" again. Did an X, and got Boot>? (P)rogram (W)ipe (U)pgrade e(X)it Boot>X - Reset Vector Invalid Boot> Uh oh.... powered the MS1 off and back on. Same thing. Whipped the lid off, to check for Boot jumper - none in place. Thought "maybe firmware got corrupted somehow? Will reprogram it" so ran the download-firmware.bat file. COM1, picked "not original megasquirt" as it's MSnS extra (from Phil at extraefi), and got this.. . src\download.exe -c1 msns-extra.s19 MS Download 1.10 ! - whaDownload failed: Expected response "Boot>", but received this " ! - wh". Press any key to continue . . . C:\PROGRA~1\MEGASQ~1\029y4> Any clues as to what's gone wrong here? It was all fine a minute ago, and now it's not going past the boot prompt... Been googling like mad, to no avail. Anyone? Thanks A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 OK, despite the download-firmware.bat not working, I decided to try it at the command-line running the download executable directly . C:\PROGRA~1\MEGASQ~1\029y4>src\download.exe -c1 msns-extra.s19 MS Download 1.10 Boot>w Complete Boot>u - waiting ... Sending file 1 of 1 - msns-extra.s19 File sent, 1762 lines, 27832 bytes. Complete Boot> Boot>©MS1/Ex Signature: tra format 029y3 ********* Controller battery voltage: 0.00 It appears that you still have the bootload jumper installed. If this is not the case, and you have removed the jumper, then something is wrong and your download probably failed. If MS doesn't reboot, type "download -help" and check out the -v switch. Odd that it mentions that boot jumper, but regardless I fired up putty again and gave it an S and then a T. MS1/Extra format 029y3 *********MS1/Extra rev 029y4 ************ And I'm back where I started - but not quite. Megatune, went to reflash my MSQ and it says "Controller voltage too low for reliable FLASH burning". The battery is showing 13.21 volts on my multimeter.. What went wrong - and how come the two versions are different? And what's with the voltage error, given my multimeter's reading? The battery won't start the motorbike, but it should be fine for this and it was charged up nicely too. Cheers edit: and after a power-cycle, it's back to the "Boot>" menu. Argh!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Check for any extraneous bits of solder/fluff/flux on the board. Sounds like you've got some funky shorts going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Thanks. It didn't used to be this way when I had it going before.. does this voltage-drop thing sound likely? I can't flash the MSQ in Megatune because of that dodgy warning coming up... oh, and just got it working over bluetooth to my Nexus 7. Gonna post a wee guide, once I've checked to see if anyone else has already done it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Nothing looks untoward on the board. It wasn't doing that earlier, sadly now it is. And nothing's changed physically with it. Had the whole MS1 apart and it looked OK. Never seen this boot menu before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 Actually, something is pretty amiss.. Checked underside, and... http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/badbit.jpg/'> Zero volts to the boot jumper, should be 2 volts. Should be 12 volts apparently to the resistors, they're dead too. The bit that powers it up, and what I've been reading, are two different things by the look of it. Box never been opened until this error tho.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Is that a DIY board or did you buy it ready built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Bought from ExtraEFI.co.uk. when I first got it, I had it powered up for testing and it seemed fine then. Its sat about a bit as I never got round to fitting it (always indoors, never been near the vehicle or any chances for mis-wiring). Only time I've taken it apart was to look for this boot block jumper. I'm kinda stumped as to how its happened, theory was perhaps some award off the case - but not seeing anything amiss. With my multimeter, I see the power comes in on pin 28 it would seem, then the rail breaks.. on the divorced side of that broken power rail, pins 1-2 and 7-19 are all grounded. So, that 12V coming in was going straight to ground in the board. Nothing looks untoward here to me, not seeing anything other than that broken rail, not keen on all the 12V going straight to ground of course, for the little I know about electronics I'm pretty sure that's not good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 From what I can see of the quality of the soldering on that board (it might just be the photo), I'd suspect a manufacturing defect. If you're not competent with electronics, I'd send it for repair. If ExtraEFI won't repair it, Nige certainly will (or rather his grown ups that do the work for him!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 That's terrible. The PCB hasn't been cleaned, never mind coated - the deposits of flux all over the place are probably what's causing your boot jumper to read 0v, but you've got bigger problems now! I'd take it up with extraEFI as something on the board has clearly caused a short circuit - a fuse on your battery would've saved you from toasting it. Assuming you get no joy from extraEFI, send it to Nige, it may be repairable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Difficult to say precisely from the photo, but that build looks like the soldering iron was waved by a monkey wearing gloves! If it was supplied like that by ExtraEFI I would be returning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Ah thanks guys, I've emailed Phil at ExtraEFI so I'll see what he says and take it from there. Much obliged! (Typical... just as I was actually fired-up enough to start doing things with it... enthusiasm, waned! Still, the thought of tablet/bluetooth fun on the move should keep the inspiration up). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Can you post a few more pics of the board? Might give a few clues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Will do that tonight - having mopped the tears off it first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Aah, it was only a small explosion, we'll get it fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hey, no mushroom-cloud, no foul - yeah ? https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/114679015633297527545/albums/5857782389054670465 Tears dried, pics ahoy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hmmm, I did electrical/electronic engineering at uni, and before that in college, I'd say that would look somewhat like my first attempts at soldering -when I was 12 and building Maplin kits! I'd be talking to ExtraEFI and asking then to take a look at the above photos, see what they can do for you. Then ask for a refund and get one of Nige's properly built and coated boards, had mine a few years now and no issues whatsoever (I think mine was Fridge's actually, before he stopped advertising personally) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I like that the TIP125's are the only ones with metal screws and are the ones where metal screws are the worst idea... looks like they're the source of the short too, not very surprising. I suspect this fault didn't show up with the mains adapter as they can't make enough amps to set fire to the trace, whereas a battery very much can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 That track has melted quite well along it's entire length :-/ It looks like an easy repair though once the source of the short is located. I'd say that uncleaned flux on the joints is making the soldering look worse than it is .... or at least I hope that's what it is as it would take extra effort to solder that badly consistently Hopefully ExtraEFI sort it out properly for you though, but worse case yours looks repairable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosecon Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Once I'd established that my transformer was screwed, I guess this short-circuit burned the transformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Spot on guys - I was in Maplins getting new fuses for the transformer and they are "time delay", which means the fuse on the device pops first, then the one on the transformer. Of course, no fuse on the MS so the transformer had actually gone pop, quite possibly months and years back - when I was trying it out with my MS1. The mists of time, eh... So, bought some new fuses, and also an inline fuse holder for the MS. In the future, I won't be trusting it to "ah, I'm not wired up to anything incorrectly, it can't be that bad". Will check out the metal screws around TIP125 later and see if that's what's causing it. I'd be right in that the other side of that power rail shouldn't be going direct to ground, yeah? As above, pins 1-2 and 7-19 on the DB37 all hit ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The tab of the TIPs is internally connected to one of the legs, hence why they have to have the mica insulator underneath them & the plastic bushing on the screw... bizarrely the standard issue screws are metal, I always swap 'em out for nylon ones. Edit: You can remove the TIPs and a few other bits if you're running Rover V8 hotwire injectors & EDIS: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansalot Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 It will indeed be hotwire and EDIS, but I'm too scared to take anything off Will be picking at things with my continuity tester tonight in the hope I can find out where the short is - but in all honesty, I'm likely going to have to get someone smarter than me involved. Time to dust off the wallet I reckon, but let's see what Phil @ ExtraEFI says first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Looks like Q12 is the culprit from the photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Looks like Q12 is the culprit from the photos. Is that because the excess length on the legs wasn't trimmed? Was the case metalic out of curiosity? Or based on the track burn? Just curious on the reasoning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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