Adam001 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi, After a few ideas, I have very recently rebuilt my car as a few of you know. Shortly after (100miles), the engine cut out, power dropped then died, bit of cranking and it started, spluttered a bit then cleared. So figured a air lock from being dry had just found it's way to the pump. Until 30mins ago, when it cut out, in typical fashion on a A road roundabout (Good job it's a defender and I could drive straight ontop of it!) It now has ~300miles on it since the rebuild. The fuel system is standard configuration with the 200 discovery engine (8mm fuel pipe to lift pump, then to filter then to injection pump then back in open loop to the tank). This time when it died it was very difficult to start, when it did I could barely drive it (plumes of white smoke, so underfuelling), got it to a side road then after a bit got it to idle properly and drove it home without any issues. So any thoughts? All connections are secure. I didn't replace the lift pump as part of the rebuild so I am thinking that is at fault. Oh and as we all like pictures...a picture of the fail... Thanks, Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 My 200Tdi Disco recently ate it's throttle spindle o ring , now for a few weeks prior to this it used to "fluff", occasionally puff white smoke and was getting to be a bit of a pain to start. I suspect (with 20-20 hindsight) that as the throttle spindle o ring breaks down there is a point where gas (i.e. air) can get past it before the o ring is worn enough to allow fluid (i.e. diesel) past it. Check that there is no dampness on the throttle spindle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Good call, didn't think of that, I'll have a look. Where can you get pump parts? Or is a rebuilt item the only way? Starting wise it starts instantly every time apart from 1 day where it took a fraction longer, enough for me to think at the time "hmm that was different, meh it's probably nothing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 I bought new throttle spindle (careful there are two types) o ring, bush and gaskets from a local company (Thomas Fuel injection) for £57 delivered, which was somewhat cheaper than the £600-£800 quoted by most for a recon pump...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Well pump and fittings are all bone dry. so nothing obvious. Tried to get a part number off the pump but the part which has it stamped is blank MIght try and find parts for the pump (Assuming it's Bosch 0 460 414 069), lift pump and new filter and hope that sorts it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Another place worth checking are fuel tank outlet (not easy on a 110) as the pipes do rot and go porous where they exit the tank, also the fuel sedimenter that can and does go wrong causing fuel starvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Has the pump been left dry for a while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Another place worth checking are fuel tank outlet (not easy on a 110) as the pipes do rot and go porous where they exit the tank, also the fuel sedimenter that can and does go wrong causing fuel starvation. The fuel tank is reasonably new (2 years or so) and the pipe around the tank are all ok. Fuel sedimenter? You mean in the filter itself? Has the pump been left dry for a while? It has been disconnected, but would have had a bit in, but it is a risk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Stick a bit of clear hose on the IP inlet - you'll be able to see if there are any air bubbles in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 another one could be the sealing washers underneath the fuel injectors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Stick a bit of clear hose on the IP inlet - you'll be able to see if there are any air bubbles in it. Good idea, I used to have clear pipe on the engine when I ran a closed loop system, but as with everything PVC it goes hard and useless over time. I'll get a piece to test it another one could be the sealing washers underneath the fuel injectors I think I'll start by swapping the lift pump, pickup (if the tank is low enough) and fuel filter and check the timing on the pump. What is the consensus, do I also have the injection pump and injectors tested? Next question, what is the best make of Lift Pump? Normally I would go with Paddock, but they only sell britpart :/ Genuine is £200 nearly, so that's just silly This one looks the most robust so far...http://www.ssldieselparts.co.uk/feedlift-pump-landrover-461383-p-569.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Actually, I cut a britpart fuel pump open once: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=79858 Conclusion - it's fine with the exception of the inlet filter not being cleanable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 That is interesting, reason I went against that is I too have had a britpart one fail. Maybe I'll do what you suggest and add a coarse inline filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Something else that can cause this is a sticky stop solenoid. I've had two fail on me and there was behaviour like this before-hand. Coincidentally I think I have the throttle spindle leak as well now which would explain a lot; the main symptom is a lot of white smoke when it has been sitting for a while; and some evidence of fuel inside the aneroid on the fueling pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 ; the main symptom is a lot of white smoke when it has been sitting for a while; . Sure thats not just cold cylinders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Yeah, the amount of smoke is proportional to how long it has sat. Even if cold later in the same day not much smoke, but let it sit a week and clouds of it for minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Over the years I've had both genuine part lift pumps and pattern part pumps fail. I now work on the principle that £20ish is bugger all really - if it lasts a couple of years you haven't been robbed! At that sort of price keep a spare in the cubby box, only takes a few minutes to fit. My Disco is, afaik, still on it's original, 220000 mile well abused injectors, all I do is chuck the occasional bottle of injector cleaner in the tank and change the fuel filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted September 3, 2013 Author Share Posted September 3, 2013 At the weekend (If I'm not in Germany) I'll swap the lift pump and Filter and add a small pre-filter, then check the timing and check the return on the pump for any signs of swarf. If I don't see any I won't go any further and just take it for a long stop start drive to see if it comes back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 White smoke is NOT underfueling. White smoke is unburned fuel. Fuel is getting into the cylinder to late to combust. I would guess you jumped a tooth on the timing belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajh Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Mine is only smoking white as mentioned; if it sits it leaks into somewhere, probably the fueling pin bore then it takes a bit to clear out and doesn't re-occur until it sits, this is classic leaky seal behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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