200tdi 12L engine with a 19j alternator and pas pump fitted

[gruntus]

12 minutes ago, western said:

200tdi defender spec PAS pump plate has a 1/2 square hole in it as well. 

I will need to have a second look Ralph as I didnt see it recently when I changed my belts! 🤔🙄

[Mo Murphy]

Yup I have a square drive hole in mine too. Must be really hard to tension the belt without it.

Mo

[PMike]

 

12 hours ago, andy _1 said:

I don't think its been butchered the mount that is, but it looks like your missing that large plate on mine and maybe that what all the washers were for. Mine is a discovery 200tdi complete fitted in a 1989 90

I think it may be just that everything is so loose as the PAS bolts snapped, is it normal btw ? What's the possible cause other than well worn bolts?

14 hours ago, 92a said:

The front  timing case , manifolds etc are easily swapped between defender and discovery blocks the 12L refers to what it went in originally,  post up some more pics or have a google or look on ebay to work out what timing case you have then you can get the right bits , 

I'll have to double check this

12 hours ago, gruntus said:

Pmike, my bottom pic is the clearest for the pas bracket (defender 200 engine)  to compare against Andy 1s (disco 200 engine).

In my view the disco bracket is superior for tensioning the PAS as the square hole that's visible is good for using a 1/2 drive to apply tension whilst you tighten the three bolts.

ATB

G

Will do, thanks

I think I'll just remove manifolds, alternator and then see whats going on and what I need to replace/adjust rather than just snapped bolts

 

Many thanks 

 

 

[gruntus]

28 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

Yup I have a square drive hole in mine too. Must be really hard to tension the belt without it.

Mo

Mo, Ralph,

Roughly where is this elusive square hole meant to be on my plate? (I feel a large amount of numptyness coming my way.🙂 )

IIRC correctly I had to gather parts when I sourced the 200TDi engine originally as there weren't many ancillaries with it. Wonder if I'm missing a part?  

ATB

G 🙂

[gruntus]

17 minutes ago, PMike said:

 

I think it may be just that everything is so loose as the PAS bolts snapped, is it normal btw ? What's the possible cause other than well worn bolts?

Everything should be a nice tight fit but regular maintenance a couple of times a year to keep your belts tensioned (PAS, Alternator) isn't unexpected.

It maybe that your last owner didn't tighten things up properly and as things have loosened have caused a bit of strain.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to get new bolts and washers and to check all your belts look like they're lining up straight. Once fitted you know that your good going forward. 

Note: Just watch you don't go down the rabbit hole of refitting your vehicle to get it all "just right", its never ending and certainly is a hobby!😄

ATB

G

[Mo Murphy]

Grant, on the flat plate with the slotted holes that the pump bolts to, there should be a square drive hole to the left of the pulley as you look at it.

Mo

[gruntus]

3 minutes ago, Mo Murphy said:

Grant, on the flat plate with the slotted holes that the pump bolts to, there should be a square drive hole to the left of the pulley as you look at it.

Mo

Meant to add this on my last post.

[Mo Murphy]

How do you tension the belt ?

Mo

[Mo Murphy]

I would put up a photo of mine but it's raining and I don't want to get wet !

Mo

[gruntus]

With difficulty of course. 🙂 Usually a large flat block of wood pushed on the plate (not the pump) by my son whilst I then nip them up. 

I check tension and repeat as necessary.........

I'm assuming my plate has a missing hole?  

Cheers

G

[Mo Murphy]

[gruntus]

Thanks Mo! 👍 Much appreciated.

[Mo Murphy]

I found one on t'internet !

So a 1/2" drive extension and ratchet in the square hole on the left and Bob's your Uncle.

HTH

Mo

[Mo Murphy]

ERR2506 or ERR1976

[western]

Here's mine, viewed from under the vehicle looking up to PAS pump & crank pulley.

 

[PMike]

1 hour ago, gruntus said:

Everything should be a nice tight fit but regular maintenance a couple of times a year to keep your belts tensioned (PAS, Alternator) isn't unexpected.

It maybe that your last owner didn't tighten things up properly and as things have loosened have caused a bit of strain.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to get new bolts and washers and to check all your belts look like they're lining up straight. Once fitted you know that your good going forward. 

Note: Just watch you don't go down the rabbit hole of refitting your vehicle to get it all "just right", its never ending and certainly is a hobby!😄

ATB

G

New bolts and belts for sure. Hobby it is, just trying to get it going, thanks 😀  

14 hours ago, andy _1 said:

I don't think its been butchered the mount that is, but it looks like your missing that large plate on mine and maybe that what all the washers were for. Mine is a discovery 200tdi complete fitted in a 1989 90

If you're talking about the PAS plate, it is there. It seem like something is not right with the alternator bracket. It looks to me as it's sitting only on the support bracket.

I've tried to remove the alternator but it started to rain so maybe later on or tomorrow.

 

[gruntus]

Hi PMike,

Yours doesn't look quite like andy_1s pics.

For reference (on mmine), the alternator hinges on the engine via a bolt at number three position and you have to loosen 3 and 1 and 2 to adjust the tension to let it move.

Basically apply some safe leverage on the alternator to tension it and then lock off 2 followed by 1 and then 3 (hope this makes sense?). 

Does yours look more like mine, mos and ralphs or more like Andy_1s?

Cheers

G

Edited February 17, 2021 by gruntus

[PMike]

Mine is more like ralphs one with slightly different belts arrangement. 

I need new bolts in order to apply tension on the alternator and PAS pump. I'm not sure if I would be able to get them in my local car parts shop..

I'll have to remove PAS bracket to snapped bolt and do the same on the engine block. 

It looks like alternator hinges bolt is missing too, it should be on the hinges and support bracket is for tension adjustment right ?

That's from under the vehicle, almost the same..

 

I'm pretty sure that I can unscrew top one from behind

Edited February 17, 2021 by PMike

[gruntus]

1 hour ago, PMike said:

Mine is more like ralphs one with slightly different belts arrangement. 

I need new bolts in order to apply tension on the alternator and PAS pump. I'm not sure if I would be able to get them in my local car parts shop..

I'll have to remove PAS bracket to snapped bolt and do the same on the engine block. 

It looks like alternator hinges bolt is missing too, it should be on the hinges and support bracket is for tension adjustment right ?

That's from under the vehicle, almost the same..

 

 

I'm pretty sure that I can unscrew top one from behind

So the alternator tension should be fairly straight forward as per my previous (hope that makes sense?)

For the power steering and fan belt the tension is adjusted by the plate on the PS pump. NOT the Cast Iron mount (in the red square box you obviously need a new bolt in their.

To adjust the tension on the pump you loosen the three bolts on the plate behind the pully (green squares) and using a 1/2 drive in the open square hole you tension the belt by pushing up/down on the plate and then lock off the the three pump bolts.

Hope that makes sense?

ATB

G

Edited February 17, 2021 by gruntus

[gruntus]

1 hour ago, PMike said:

Mine is more like ralphs one with slightly different belts arrangement. 

I need new bolts in order to apply tension on the alternator and PAS pump. I'm not sure if I would be able to get them in my local car parts shop..

I'll have to remove PAS bracket to snapped bolt and do the same on the engine block. 

It looks like alternator hinges bolt is missing too, it should be on the hinges and support bracket is for tension adjustment right ?

I cant remember the threads for the various bolts (have a look on the manuals HERE) but you should get them readily nearby (if you can identify them as metric screwfix may even have them)

The alternator support bracket is for tension yes,  the hinge bolt for the alternator which is quite long also gets  tightened up once your at the right tension.

G

[PMike]

14 minutes ago, gruntus said:

So the alternator tension should be fairly straight forward as per my previous (hope that makes sense?)

For the power steering and fan belt the tension is adjusted by the plate on the PS pump. NOT the Cast Iron mount (in the red square box you obviously need a new bolt in their.

To adjust the tension on the pump you loosen the three bolts (green squares) and using a 1/2 drive in the open square hole tension the belt and lock off the the three pump bolts.

Hope that makes sense?

ATB

G

 

 

It does make perfect sense, thank you.

I've ordered new bolts and washers, it should be with me in a couple of days.

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by PMike

[PMike]

I removed alternator and PAS/alternator bracket. It was more screws missing, luckily I've ordered 2 of each just in case

It seems like main bracket is attached only by 2 bolts (red circles) to the engine block and alternator support bracket/tensioner, is it enough? maybe the only reason of snapped bolts was poor maintenance and not properly tightened or missing bolts?

[western]

On the Defender 11L spec engine there are 2 bolts going from the PAS/ALT bracket lower down going in to rear part of the timing case as well. 

[PMike]

There is no chance to attached no 9 bolts to the timing case as engine is 12L and bracket is probably from original engine 11L, maybe I'll be able to do some support bracket to reinforce it.